Discuss » Current Issues

Zaid Hamid and the strategic depth

(114 posts)
  1. By: Farhat Taj

    FATA continues to be used and abused as a strategic space by the security establishment of Pakistan in violent pursuit of strategic depth in Afghanistan. In short, strategic depth means Pakistan must have a pro-Pakistan government in Afghanistan by any and all means. People of FATA have suffered more than people in any other part of Pakistan due to this policy. They dread and hate ‘strategic depth’.

    Some people of FATA drew my attention towards Zaid Hamid, who, they said, is a new charm offensive of the military establishment to popularise the notion of strategic depth among the youth from affluent families in the big cities of Pakistan. He is frequently given air time by the electronic media, also an evidence that the media, especially the Urdu media, is not free and has to toe the establishment’s line in security matters. Show biz celebrities have joined him. Those who oppose the strategic depth, especially the Pakhtun, who are the biggest casualty of it, are never given so much media attention.

    The main concern of the people of FATA vis-a-vis Zaid Hamid is his use of a particularly narrow interpretation of Islam that proposes a belligerent agenda for the Pakistan Army and drawing on controversial Islamic literature. Thus the authenticity of the hadiths — sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) — on Ghazwa-e-Hind that he often refers to in terms of the ultimate defeat of the Indians at the hands of the Pakistan Army is highly questionable.

    Zaid Hamid claims in his speeches to young people that God determines the destiny of Pakistan. Pakistan will become a grand Caliphate. Pakistan army will cut India down to the size of Sri Lanka. Pakistan will lead the entire Muslim world and its army will be deployed in Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya and Afghanistan. The corrupt judicial system, consisting of the lawyers and the Supreme Court of Pakistan, will be replaced by an Islamic judicial system that would ensure — Taliban style — speedy and cheap justice. He claims that the current elected set up in Pakistan is implanted by the CIA and prophesies that the current rulers in Pakistan will have their dead bodies hanging on poles in Islamabad, an indirect appreciation of what the Taliban did in Afghanistan with the dead body of Dr Najibullah, the then Afghan president. He openly threatens the nationalists, especially the Pakhtun and Baloch nationalists, for their aspirations. The Taliban government in Afghanistan, he declares, was Pakistan-friendly and condemns its removal by the US in the post-9/11 attack on the country. He glorifies the biggest mass murderer of the Pakhtun — General Zia, the former dictator of Pakistan.

    Judging by the obscurantist message that he communicates, Zaid Hamid does not seem to be a new invention of the establishment. He is an addition to the long list of people who have been handpicked to promote an anti-people agenda in the name of religion and hate of India, like the people from the Jamaat-e-Islami. What seems to be new is his apparent ‘tolerance’ of the ‘un-Islamic’ lifestyle of the urban youth and in this context there are some interesting discussions about Zaid Hamid on some blogs and mailing lists. One blogger writes that Zaid Hamid is using a new strategy to communicate the same old conspiracy theories to young people. The strategy is that unlike classical Islamic scholars, joining Zaid Hamid’s group does not necessarily require the youth to shed their sophisticated lifestyle and adjust to hijab, a ban on music and gender segregation. The only thing they have to do is to glorify the Pakistan Army, including its pursuit of strategic depth, and hate Jews, Americans and Indians.

    A writer on one of the mailing lists argues that Zaid Hamid is a Pied Piper for our youth from the prosperous sections of Punjab who have no dreams to be proud of. Zaid Hamid sells the dreams of conquering the world, though they are nonsense, yet still work for the youth who are now caught up in an identity crisis, continues the writer. The writer understands that the fault lies with the leftist intellectuals who have lost direction by joining NGOs and leaving the anti-imperialist struggle open for people like Zaid Hamid or Imran Khan.

    Zaid Hamid, in his show, sets a dangerous agenda for the youth of Pakistan; the very same youth who are living a comfortable life in poverty-stricken Pakistan. They lack any ambitions in life to give it some purpose. This lack of goals is rooted in the identity crisis being faced by the Pakistani youth. The crisis is expressed in questions like these: what are we first of all: Muslim or Pakistani? Is our ultimate commitment with Pakistani citizenship or a global Muslim brotherhood? What kind of Pakistan should we aim at: a progressive multi-ethnic social democracy or some kind of medieval caliphate?

    Secondly, one has to strive very hard for ideals. If the ideal is the former (multi-ethnic social democratic Pakistan), the youth from affluent families will have to share their riches with the poor, downtrodden fellow citizens. This is very hard for this class of people, otherwise I would at least have seen them working for bringing normalcy in the shattered lives of the people of FATA, who have been living in deplorable conditions in refugee camps for over two years now. In the latter case (caliphate) they can placate their conscience by attaching themselves with the higher ideal without having to give up something from their comfortable lives. The only thing they have to do is to support the belligerent agenda of the military establishment and their poor fellow Pakistanis can go to hell. Zaid Hamid’s campaign is like opium for the young that makes them run away from reality, i.e. Pakistan is a class-based multi-ethnic society that cannot be held together with mere Islamic rhetoric and military ambitions.

    What is even more dangerous is the fact that Zaid Hamid is glorifying the same Taliban that the people of FATA hold responsible for their massacre at the behest of the military establishment of Pakistan. Case in point, Jalaluddin Haqqani who occupies North Waziristan. I would invite the young fans of Zaid Hamid to take a tour of FATA, or at least FATA IDP camps in various parts of the NWFP, to observe firsthand what the Taliban and the military did to these people. I would remind the youth that people all over FATA hold the generals of the Pakistan Army more than the Taliban responsible for the death and destruction in their area. They view the Taliban — all Taliban, good, bad, Afghan or Pakistani — as a creation of the intelligence agencies of our country. How much more do the people of FATA need to sacrifice for strategic depth in Afghanistan? The never-ending human sufferings in the area could transform into widespread anti-state sentiments. The youth around Zaid Hamid must know that the current pursuit of strategic depth may turn into — as rightly described in this paper’s editorial ‘Strategic death’? (Daily Times, February 3, 2010) –’strategic death’ for Pakistan rather than securing a friendly Afghanistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 1:36 #
  2. Wahid Doyum
    Member

    Thank you for posting. Zaid Hamid represents Pakistani devilish mentality which is become a burden on oppressed Pukhtuns. Inshallah we will be free of this soon just like Bengalis before.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 4:22 #
  3. Salam
    member

    sounds like a baseless propaganda", they dread and hate ‘strategic depth’" how was this conclusion reached?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 4:55 #
  4. Shock
    Members

    This guy (Zaid Hamid) is an embarrassment for our country. I feel sorry for our youth that they have no hope. There is a really good article from Sana Saleem on Zaid Hamid:

    http://blog.dawn.com/2010/02/03/our-source-of-national-pride/

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 4:58 #
  5. Salam
    member

    well what option has been left for the youth? they already hate altaf, zardari, shareef, fazalu, qazi & mushy?

    not sure how but these kinds of elements get projection in media and make emotional & 'patriotic' appeal to youth which is acceptable to them-

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 6:16 #
  6. Tripe and drivel! Rot and nonsense! Zahid Hamid tells us the true story of the creation of Pakistan, keeps our hearts strong and steadfast even at the worst of times, teaches us Pakistan must be our great, passionate love just like the vision of an independent and free Pakistan was Allama Iqbal's overwhelming poetic inspiration, the only poet I know of in history thanks to whom a new nation came into being. And he requires from us all, young and old, that we love God, the Prophet and Pakistan and strive to become Momins in our hearts and deeds. Go on, the lot of you, west propaganda-immersed "greenies" like the so-called opposition running around in circles in neighbouring Iran. And these lines are not being written by someone even remotely young. Leave our youth alone, you west-fiends, they will manage beautifully under the guidance of people like Zahid Hamid and Imran Khan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 8:52 #
  7. sasherwani
    Members

    Zaid Hamid reminds me of Waqar Zaka from that ARY show called Living on the Edge. Waqar Zaka captures the attention of a part of our neglected youth which believes that committing graphic or violent acts on television will get them attention from their siblings/ parents or friends. This is their retaliative method of winning acceptance and attention. They are as insane as the Zaid Hamid fans, again a bunch of youthful pseudo-intellectuals who believe that Pakistan is at the edge of destruction and a 'drastic' measure needs to be taken to prevent the collapse. They believe that only a Mujahid whose vocabulary and enthusiasm overshadows that of our politicians and the so-called leaders can be our solution and that mujahid can only be Zaid Hamid. Ofcourse he is, he just SOUNDS so right! rrright?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 9:06 #
  8. Salam
    member

    mirza ghalib,

    why is it that one can't find zaid hamid differencing with army chief's position?

    i remember how zaid hamid used to bring logic in favor of general musharraf, connecting everything with hate against india

    for me he is nothing more than isi mouth piece in media, though he has good analysis some times, but over all i don't respect him as an independent analyst

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 9:23 #
  9. Shock
    Members

    @mirza

    I remember him calling Hamid Mir a CIA agent. I just want to know that if Hamid Mir is CIA, then why is Zaid Hamid working in the same channel?

    Instead of bearded mullahs, he got fashion models, designers, and that punk Ali Azmat to win support of the liberals and moderates.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 9:39 #
  10. Anonymous

    Zaid Hamid’s ideology is based on hatred yet he is good at juggling with words and showing mirage of marvel to deceive people. But in the end what remains are the hollow words only to remain content with.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 10:42 #
  11. @ Salam - Actually, one thing must always be remembered about Zaid Hamid. He is totally apolitical. He'd be willing to support anyone coming forward with a pro-Pakistan agenda. NOT A PRO-WEST AGENDA. He has found something to praise in all past leaders, be it Ayub Khan, Bhutto, Benazir, etc. Whatever they might have done in favour of our country has been duly acknowledged by Zaid Hamid. If he doesn't distance himself from Pak army chief's position, it's no doubt that he finds Gen Kiyani is doing the right thing. I personally don't know.

    The whole FATA mess is painful beyond words and often I don't see the point of any of it. What I do see though is the WEST is our enemy, no one else. From that 7th of October 2001 when they attacked Afghanistan till today, we have been living in limbo.

    Out, out the West, and then we'll be able to breathe again and rebuild. And there, Zaid Hamid's unwavering faith in Pakistan will prove precious for all of his utterly depressed countrymen.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 10:51 #
  12. Salam
    member

    remember zaid hamid always lobbies for army chief, be it mushy or kiani!

    why did zaid hamid never opposed or criticized musharraf's traitor actions? if zaid hamid is such a patriot then why didn't he criticize mushy's war on terror? why zaid hamid is not willing to own afghan resistance going on right now? why zaid hamid overlooks all the logistics support provided to US/NATO by mush/kiani?

    this guy is a dubious character, his past is questionable and his call is smoke & mirror :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 11:17 #
  13. OK, define your enemy as you like. I tell you it's the West which is attacking or subverting practically all the Muslim countries. you and others like you seem to feel Zaid Hamid is our problem. Do you know what? Whether you know it or not, you are all west-assets. Talking any further to you makes no sense.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 12:21 #
  14. Any scholar, politician, or religious leader using the canopy of Allama Iqbal's poetry and Philosophy as a carrier for the promotion of his/her agenda, should first show respect to the very theme of Iqbal's Thought.

    1. Iqbal was completely against Taqleedi Islam (Fundamentalism)

    2. Iqbal struggled for Ijtehadi and Tajdeedi Islam.
    ( To make adjustments according to modern social needs.)

    3. According to Dr. Javed Iqbal, Allama Iqbal, in 1924, proposed that Islamic Shariat should be redefined to make it practicable.

    4. Allama Iqbal completely rejected and condemned the Institution of Orthodox Mulla, as the root cause for the decline of Muslim society.

    5. Allama Iqbal, rejecting and ignoring all of the traditional religious stalwarts, picked up and requested a liberal Mohammad Ali Jinnah to plead and lead the Muslim cause during the British Rule.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 12:33 #
  15. Salam
    member

    mirza ghalib

    of course the west is in competition with us, so what to expect from them but to keep on trying to preempt the rise of competitor

    as far as zaid hamid is concerned, i do not consider him as an independent analyst, he just gives isi's stance on security situation, he supported mushy all along while now we know that mushy committed many blunders, furthermore zaid blindly supports kiani, pasha and mustafa without any criticism

    don't you ever wonder why US/NATO are so interested in extension of general kiani/pasha/mustafa?? ?

    if kiani/pasha/mustafa were hurting US/NATO interests then these western powers would not be found lobbying for these traitors extension, right?

    why is mr. zaid hamid blinded to these developments?

    @sheikh

    talk about iqbal, but keep one thing crystal clear that iqbal wanted islam as way of life, sure he asked for ijtehad & tajdeed, but have no doubt about that his call for islam and rejection of european secular philosophy -just a reminder to likes of yours who call islamic way of life as 'stone aged' expired system :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 12:44 #
  16. * Iqbal suggested 'a redefined interpretation of Islam' as 'Way of Life'.

    * Iqbal preferred the vision of a liberal Mohammad Ali Jinnah over the vision of persons like Mualana Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Maulana Husain Ahmad Madni.

    * Iqbal never supported any attempt to put the evolutionary process into reverse gear pushing the wheel of humanity heading towards Stone Age.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:01 #
  17. Salam
    member

    right, iqbal suggested islam as way of life

    now what was his definition or views on islam is another matter of discussion, but first we got to be clear on iqbal's rejection of western philosophies and approval of islamic way of life-

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:19 #
  18. Ok, Salam, Sorry I lost my temper above. Your reply was courteous and good. Specially, when addressing sheikh and setting him straight about what Iqbal really thought of "European secular philosophy".

    About Zaid Hamid, I tried to put in in different terms. I was perhaps not clear enough. If you say you do not consider Zaid Hamid an independent analyst, you're not far wrong. He is no analyst, of any kind. He's apolitical and visionary. A source of inspiration to scores of us who no longer saw any hope for Pakistan with the vulgar West camping out on its doorstep. You want analysts, there are dozens of them to be found all over. Zaid Hamid is that very rare thing, a Muslim mystic.

    As for why Pakistan is still giving Musharraf-like support to West forces in Iraq, the thinking behind it seems to be playing for time. Give the damnamble West enough rope to hang themselves. Keep them busy while the Freeworld countries gain and regain their strength. Let the quagmire suck them in completely, let their economic prolapse be complete, then we'll make our final moves of self-affirmation.

    More, I don't know. But I wish once again to apologise for my rudeness earlier on.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:31 #
  19. Anonymous

    Zaid Hamid is the spokesperson of all those who saw RAW, CIA, MOSAD, Blacwater, FSB, KGB and others hand in destroying Pakistan....but our army is enough to do all that without even taking help from those agencies because half of Pakistan already hate our army because they have already killed and used many people for their purpose.....I think he is still serving Hameed Gull and company and their pro Taliban strategy and also their desire to war with India..

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:40 #
  20. Salam
    member

    mirza ghalib,

    no problem, i understand.

    well, overall i don't mind zaid hamid's views as i know he is pushing & connecting the dynamic youth of pakistan with our enlightened past, he talks about dignity & honor that is hard to find in today's leadership, at the end of the day he is an islamists and a critic of secular/liberals so i do consider him in my camp :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:42 #
  21. Iqbal & Islam

    http://i46.tinypic.com/10rtt14.jpg

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:42 #
  22. sasherwani
    Members

    @ Javed Sahib,

    I admire and sometimes envy your depth of knowledge.

    Keep posting. We need people like you!

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:49 #
  23. Salam
    member

    lolz... now i understand why you jumped and brought iqbal here, to share this scan copy :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 13:50 #
  24. @ Good. Gracious of you. Thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:01 #
  25. fikr-e-har-kas baqadar-e-himmat-e-oost

    This is not 'Cut and Paste' and not fake, but original.

    I failed to understand your concern and reaction?

    (I make posting to express and share my observations, experiences and feelings without expecting any award or reward or Tamgha)
    They say it is better to appreciate a 'half-full-glass' with an optimism to make the half-empty portion filled.
    Here is a little bit better image of the article:

    http://i47.tinypic.com/2mywx3n.jpg

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:04 #
  26. Salam
    member

    i am only saying that the timing and place is bad for this work :)

    i understand that you are a critic of iqbal and consider him a mulla, but we should do justice with him and discuss this class philosophy/history at proper place :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:11 #
  27. Anonymous

    JJ/Salam

    Can you be Gracious to others as well or it is for a few selected ones only?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:14 #
  28. Salam
    member

    adna/k

    i understand that you are in opposing camp but i also make posts to express and share my observations, experiences and feelings without expecting any award, reward or tamgha

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:21 #
  29. Thats really beautiful! Two true intellectuals Salam and Mirza Bhai. Now that is a moment of truth for walnut sized brianiacs.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:23 #
  30. "i understand that you are a critic of iqbal and consider him a mulla,"

    * How you deducted this impression?

    * A critic has to look and analyze both sides of the coin before jumping to a conclusion.
    * Tail of an elephant is just a part and not the whole of elephant.
    * Critical study is an attempt to reach the reality by shredding the contoversialities.
    * As Mr. Zaid Hamid claims to be a Champion of Iqbal, this is the best thread to express my concern.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:26 #
  31. Salam
    member

    my dear, what would you like to discuss, iqbal's vision on islamic way of life or your views on iqbal reflected in that piece of scan?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 14:34 #
  32. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    JavedSheikh sb. uses Iqbal to further his agenda (*sigh*);

    * Iqbal suggested 'a redefined interpretation of Islam' as 'Way of Life'.

    2. Iqbal struggled for Ijtehadi and Tajdeedi Islam.
    ( To make adjustments according to modern social needs.)

    The above content in italics is offensive for me.

    (a) Iqbal warned Muslims from 'Ijtehad and Tajdeed' at a time of confusion, downfall, at a time when Muslims are not in peace time, if I remember correctly. Iqbal was of the view that Ijtihad is to be done at a time when Muslims have knowledgeable Ulamaa working on matters, rather than every other man on the block who calls himself an 'Aalim'/Muslim scholar.

    (b) Muslims do not need to abandon Islam, its principles, its standards, for adaptation to 'modern social needs'. It is the other way around. In-fact Islam is the best guide for mankind's social needs, even in these modern times.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 15:32 #
  33. Salam
    member

    sheikh doesn't want islam as way of life -period- where as iqbal suggested/promoted islam as way of life

    we can debate about iqbal's vision on ijtehad/tajdeed, but what i am requesting here is to first accept islam as way of life to make islam as benchmark or point of referral for discussion.

    what is the point of discussion if one doesn't even accept islam as way of life?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 15:41 #
  34. 1. The acceptance of a woman, Mohtarma Fatimah Jinnah as Head of the Statr, was not a Tajdeed and Ijetehad?
    How is that?
    2. Is the frequent use of photography (a Haram) and electronic equipment as medium of expression and journalism, not a Tajdeed and Ijtehad?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 15:52 #
  35. zingaro
    Member

    How are you Javed Sahib .. I was thinking of you because i saw your participation after long time .. I hope every thing is fine on your end...
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    BTW this topic was not for Zaid Hamid ?????

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 15:54 #
  36. Salam
    member

    well let me first see your thought process -plz

    tell me how is mohtarma fatima jinnah as head of state a tajdeed or ijtehad? or how photo/electic is considered tajdeed or ijtehad?

    perhaps flaw at core understanding of the concepts?

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 16:01 #
  37. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I generally agree with JJ/Salam on this thread's topic. I would say the same, that JJ/Salam has said about Zaid Hamid.

    This thread is a representation of AHR's fear of Zaid Hamid. Why ? Because Zaid gives importance to DEEN-e-Islam in matters of state, where-as AHR believes in secularism. Two totally opposite viewpoints. :-)

    Personally, I hear Zaid Hamid words, but doubt/suspect him.

    From his words I come to the conclusion, Zaid Hamid is not interested in impartial, across the board, FAST!, non-discriminatory justice system that obeys Islam.

    He is interested in the rule of the Army over this nation. That nation, this collective has rejected military rule too many times, which I believe is because of the injustice they propagate through their rule.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 16:17 #
  38. Salam
    member

    AHR is a confused secular who thinks that islamic republic of pakistan is an islamic state.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 16:44 #
  39. Anonymous

    Now that Iqbal is discussed here, let me add that Iqbal was Allama Iqbal, not Maulana Iqbal. Being a Muslim, Allama Iqbal was worried about the Muslim Nation as a whole, not the mullas of the nation only. Using the concern of Allama Iqbal for the Muslims, confused extremists always try to drag him in their camp where as the fact is that Iqbal remained critical of mullas. The Islamic way of life version as presented today by the mullas is quite contrary to the vision of Islamic way of life presented by Iqbal. Muslims in the past and today had been spending their lives according to the Islamic way of life, not a way of life that westerners spend. Zaid Hamid is playing the same trick using the name of Iqbal to meet his ends.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 17:31 #
  40. Salam
    member

    adna/k

    care to elaborate your thinking on:

    The Islamic way of life version as presented today by the mullas is quite contrary to the vision of Islamic way of life presented by Iqbal.

    no one is talking about or comparing today's mulla with iqbal, perhaps your prejudice is making you blind my dear :)

    iqbal was not a hypocrite secular as a couple of members are trying to present above, he called for islamic value system, islamic way of life.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 17:46 #
  41. Iqbal was never a hypocrite secular.

    Go uss ki khudai main mohajin ka bhi hai haath
    Duniya tou samajhti hai Farangi ko Khudawand
    Ehkaam TEREY Haq hain, magar apney muffassir
    Taweel say Quran ko bana saktey hain paband
    Derwesh-e-Khuda mast na sharqi hai na gharbi
    Ghar uss ka na Dilli, na Safahan, na Samarqand
    Chup reh na saka Hazrat-e-Yazdan main bhi Iqbal
    Kerta koi iss banda-e-gustaakh ka mun band

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 17:50 #
  42. Salam
    member

    good shaheen!

    i leave these hypos with you for now :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 17:54 #
  43. netengr
    blocked

    Iqbal was a great philosopher not a "prophet " ,he has been changing his views in different times that is why every one can quote Iqbal and can get what he wants from his poetry .

    Zaid himid is a part of un Islamic islamization .

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 17:57 #
  44. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    Zaid Hamid has a lot of knowledge no doubt.

    What I dislike about him is the way he conducts himself and gets carried away with remarks like "See you in Panipat then"

    or "We will accept India but when its renamed as Pakistan with Dehli as its capital"

    Zaid Hamid is a touch too agressive and has the mentality of either you are with us or against us... which does not always work.

    Plus another thing is that Zaid Hamid was an ex-jamaati which does not set things straight for me.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 18:01 #
  45. For the westernized:
    Mumkin hai kay tu jis ko samjhta hai baharan
    Auron ki nigahon main wo mosam ho khizan ka
    Shayad kay zameen hai ye kissi aur jahan ki
    Tu jisko samajhta hai falak apney jahan ka

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 18:05 #
  46. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    shukr allah ka im not westernized ^ :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 18:10 #
  47. Anonymous

    JJ/Salam

    What I said is very clear. You are intelligent enough to understand it. No need for further elaboration my friend.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 18:13 #
  48. @hariskhan,
    I would much rather be a "confused" secular optimist, than a member of JUI in Punjab University using my parents hard earned money and bullying kids. I would let Allah choose the fate of people than take religion and justice into my own hands and determine who is to be punished and who is to be let loose. Who has given the authority to JUI members to inflict punishment on other students who come to a place of attaining higher education. Who am I to tell someone that I he/she is practicing their religion in an incorrect manner. Propagandist have no role in Pakistan. They have destroyed the country Jinnah and Iqbal created for us, and it is time that characters who are promoting the same militant ideology as proposed by Zia are mentally analyzed in a psychiatric ward.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 18:50 #
  49. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @AHR: Wow!. When you have no 'daleel' (in urdu), now you'r going to bring IJT into this ?

    You'r point about IJT is invalid for two simple, straight-forward reasons;

    (1) MULLAHs or people from IJT have never been in power in Federal Govt. in Pakistan to-date

    What does that mean ? It means, they never had Pakistan's justice system under their control. Secular powers (be them dictatorships or politicians) have had power in Pakistan since its creation. They have failed! miserably! in imparting justice. They! have encouraged crime, corruption, injustice, misery in Pakistan.

    If those who ruled over Pakistan were interested in imparting justice, the issue of IJT or student unions would have been resolved according to law of the land within 7-30 days.

    In your opinion, how long does it take for people running Pakistan Govt. to deal with a matter like this ? 60+ years ?

    (2) It is the people who have been running Pakistan Govt. or Provincial Govt. to-date who have never allowed regular elections to be held in student unions

    What does that mean ? It means the people running Federal/Provincial Govt. have been protecting criminals within student unions from being prosecuted by Pakistan's justice system.

    I ask you, why have the people running Federal/Provincial Govt. been protecting criminals in student unions ?

    You have no claim, no reason. Your argument is invalid, my friend.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    It is said that judiciary is FREE now. Why doesn't PPP Govt. or you or others who have grievances bring cases against them in the court of LAW ?

    Let's see who is vindicated, and who is punished by the court of law. I'm eager to see them get prosecuted through the court of law.

    I'm eager to see JI, IJT cleaned up of criminals through cases in the court of law.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 19:16 #
  50. Thank you hariskhan for proving my very point. One that I have been articulating from the very first day.

    1) JUI has been a political party even before Pakistan was born. If my calculation is correct that is roughly 63 years. They have contested in every election since then. Not once have they been asked to form the Federal government. That clearly means that a majority in 170million DO NOT buy into the ideology of the JUI. Pakistan does not want to see this political party in power. They have NEVER elected them into power. So to say that the JUI offers a better judicial system is ridiculous because clearly 170million people do not believe that

    2) And to prove my second point, you again have made it very easy for me. What you clearly stated in your last post was that the federal government is incompetent and has never allowed for justice in student unions. "If those who ruled over Pakistan were interested in imparting justice, the issue of IJT or student unions would have been resolved according to law of the land within 7-30 day". Firstly, I don't see the connection between the federal government and student unions in educational institutions. But for the sake of argument I am willing to accept your statement. But do explain this for me. If JUI is so big on justice and impartiality, why has it never stopped its very own student wings from treating other students in such a disgusting and pathetic manner? Why has the JUI not done an internal inquiry into the behavior of its very own wing? Why complain to the federal government for not holding justice, when the JUI has failed to control its own student wing?

    Look at it logically. If the JUI is incapable of handling a few hundred students, how do you expect me to believe that they can control a nation of 170million people? Maybe that is why they have never been elected to the Federal government.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Feb 2010 19:44 #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.