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Taking Responsibility

(28 posts)
  1. hkbajwa
    Member

    In this world it is always easy to absolve yourself of responsiblity. No matter what challenges our country and society faces, we are always very ready to place the blame squarely on the shoulders of politicians, the military, India, america, Israel, UK, Europe, ahmadis, christians, hindus, atheists, moderates, extremists, taliban, alqaeda, women, student unions, bureaucracy etc etc etc

    I would wager that half of the topics on this forum in some way or the other show a problem and identify a "culprit". The culprit however is never ourselves... EVER.

    The fact is that passing blame is the easiest thing in the world. It is also the most ineffective and inconsequential act because it does absolutely nothing to change anything. the only thing it manages to do on occasion is to widen the already massive gulf between human being of different faith, nationalisties, ethnicities, politicial affiliations, races, gender and creed. whoop de doo

    If Pakistan is being exploited, it is pakistan's fault. If our politicians are crooked, it is pakistan's fault. If we are being bullied by world powers, it is our own fault. If there is violence, intolerance and aggression in our country, it is our own fault. In fact everything that happens to our nation it is squarely our own fault.

    A whole lot of wasted energy could be saved if we stopped squandering it on passing on the blame and instead used the energy to tackle the problems we face.

    So what if the US is supporting corrupt politicians... forget the **** US and kick out the politicians. SO what if India is trying to turn Balochistan against the state of pakistan.. for get bloody india and deal with the grievances fo the baloch so they see the advantage of being part of Pakistan. So what if there are a thousand conspiracies against our nation.... there have ALWAYS been conspiracies against sovereign nations and there will continue to be conspiracies. But if we just ignored these conspiracies and truly worked to make the lives of our citizens better, don't you think the conspiracies would fail??

    If our country is in a bad state only we are to blame. To blame others is to absolve on self of responsibility. Our future lies only in our hands

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 5:46 #
  2. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    What would you say about the time, when non-Muslims, be them atheists, pervaizi, qadyani, ismaili, etc etc, as well as ALL others who create confusion, spread chaos by;

    (1) spreading propaganda by saying 'kis ka Islam', 'kon sa Islam' ?
    (2) saying a non-Muslim can be loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY, more than a Muslim ?
    (3) whispering into ears of Muslims things that confuse Muslims, make them become double minded on established facts ?

    Would you people take responsibility for intentionally doing that ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 5:52 #
  3. We are not the only one who blame others,
    USA blame Alqaida and Taliban , India Blame ISI , Israeli blame Palistinians, Hindus blame muslims, Christians blame on redical Islam, Indian army blame Kashmiri separatists and Pakistani army, Hamid Karzai blame Pakistani pushtons and Pak army.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 5:57 #
  4. @hkbajwa
    If Pakistan is being exploited, it is Pakistan’s fault. If our politicians are crooked, it is Pakistan’s fault. If we are being bullied by world powers, it is our own fault. If there is violence, intolerance and aggression in our country, it is our own fault. In fact everything that happens to our nation it is squarely our own fault.

    You have said it all in a nice way and it is absolutely true.
    If our enemies are active in Pakistan is also our own fault. Only we are to be blamed and no one else.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:05 #
  5. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I am ready to take responsibility for what I do. I will openly accept my mistakes.

    I choose to join the collective of JI for good, rational reasons. I will openly accept mistakes of JI. I will openly accept if JI's people commit any crimes.

    What I will not accept is 'doubts', 'possibilities', propaganda, lies, baseless blames, baseless allegations, etc etc.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:05 #
  6. Question is still there who supply arms to terroists?
    A country which cant afford expensive weapns for her army is fighting aganist well armed and trained terrorists.
    Just to let you know that India is the only country in asia who pioneerd 'Suicide vest' which can carry 7 to 10 kg explosive. india used this weapon against srilankans for last 30 years.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:15 #
  7. Arms that have been recovered from their possession are American, British, Russian, Indian and even Chinese. Some claim that these weapons had been looted in the past. Not all is true. Some have been actually bought on the black market.
    When you consider recovery of fake and genuine currencies of India/Afghanistan along with organizational literature and weapons, then a much clearer picture emerges.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:20 #
  8. ajhons
    Member

    HKbajwa
    You wre absolutly right.Hameesha apnay gareeban main daikhna chahiye.If are facing all this happening in our country then we are the only for blame this.We as a nationwho never stand for all the injustice of politicians, generals,Religious leaders,ethinic leaders.We always go for our baradri,our religiuos affiliations aur "Humzaban",

    Haris accepting one's fault is the best thing one can do for society and you prove you are a good high moral person.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:31 #
  9. Reasons to balme

    &

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:35 #
  10. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ Haris

    Listen if your "perfect religion" cannot counter the allegedly insidious "propoganda" of all the "confusion mongers" then clearly it's not so perfect now is it???

    This "chaos" that you refer to is only there because the likes of you are unable to convince the ummah otherwise without resorting to aggression and violence. And in a brilliant example of the very attitude i am speaking of, instead of seeking out and correcting your weaknesses in your perception of Islam, you instantly go on the offensive against those who reveal these weaknesses.

    If the US is able to corrupt our politicians it's time we stop sitting back and wailing about the US and instead grab our corrupt leaders by the scruff and throw them out. If India is able to fan unrest against Pakistan in Balochistan, it.s time we look towards the grievances of a population we have wronged. If world arms dealers are able to keep conflict alive in our region, it's time we stop fighting and start developing.

    And if the support for your "perfect religion" is being eroded it's time for you to review and accept WHY that is so and seek to strengthen the arguments of your faith. Only thus will your imaan expand and grow stronger. Yet instead of looking inwards you are reacting in the typical fashion and seeking to place blame on "the outsider".

    Also, i consider Nelson Mandela a christian, to be far more loyal to allah almighty than Bin Laden. I consider Mother Teresa to be far more loyal to allah almighty than Sufi Mohammad. I consider the Dalai Lama to be a more patient and fitting spiritual leader than Mullah Omer.

    The fact that some non-muslims most certainly CAN be more loyal to allah almighty is not propoganda. It is plain and simple fact.

    Again you seem to think that it is more important to SAY you are muslim, than to ACT like one. The examples above are non-muslim, but their acts show that they are most certainly loyal to allah almighty and his purpose for human beings.

    You speak of muslims becoming double minded. Well i have always believed that even the mightiest of lies cannot deny the smallest of truths. If your interpretation and perception of Islam truly was perfect and infalliable, then no doubt could be created even by the most devious of liars.

    The fact that doubts exist and people get double minded should give you reason to pause and review your own weaknesses. But it doesn't. It elicits from you the same knee-jerk aggressive response that is the fundamental reason for our nation's inability to fix itself.

    We, like all other nations, keep finding others to blame. How sad it is that while we consider ourselves to be so different and so unique from the rest of the world, our actions are the same as any other nation. Weak!

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:19 #
  11. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @hkbajwa: This thread is about taking responsibility.

    Do you take responsibility for your actions, your words, or not ?

    ALL else comes after this.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:23 #
  12. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ iamsowise

    It is possible to find infinite clips and soundbytes to "prove" any number of conspiracies. They mean absolutely nothing. Human interaction has always been marked by war, aggression, curelty, hatred and distrust of "the others". These clips show actions and issues that are committed by cruel humans in every religion, ethnicity, nation, race, and culture. These clips happen to focus on hindu culprits. I'm sure the hindus have some showing muslim culprits, some whites could have black people as culprits, some algerians have french culprits etc etc etc. The real problem is that such barbaric acts exist in our SPECIES, whereas it truly shouldn't.

    As always you too are focusing on WHO did something rather than on WHAT was done and how such a thing can be prevented.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:25 #
  13. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ Haris

    I take FULL responsiblity for everything i say and do in my life. I don't understand what i could have said that would give you any other notion.

    I do get the feeling that you want me to "take responsiblity" for being a "confusion monger" or something like that, but of course i cannot take responsiblity for something that i do not do. I'm sure you think so and will take great pains to try and "prove" that i do, but it still won't change one simple fact.

    That simple fact is that if my expression of my personal belief contradicts your opinion/belief/perception, and if other people seem to be swayed by my personal belief more than by yours... well then dear friend, it is YOUR opinion/belief/perception that needs to expand and grow stronger. After all i'm not the one with the problem now am i?

    Just a word of caution. Attacking or denigrating me or accusing me of XYZ still won't make it my problem or strengthen your stance either. It will merely reveal your weakness further :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:31 #
  14. I agree with hariskhan when he with an open heart and mind accepts responsibility to what he is liable only.

    Sure as a Muslim I/we have strong faith in Allah Almight and Muhammad (pbuh) as his last/final prophet. We also belive in Quaran and Ahadees as without all this we are something else than Muslims.

    My interaction with christians, hindus and sikhs is going on well with no enimity based on religion because we do not discuss religion. If one may have beliefs different than mine and attempt to impose their's over mine, then I would polietly but firmly tell them not to. No need to rebuke or abuse.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:38 #
  15. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    In short, you don't take responsibility for your actions. But you choose to ask others for it.

    Islam is the balance in life. Islam provides guidelines, boundaries, inside which Muslims live their lives.

    There's an infinity of world outside that boundary. Resorting to that infinity as opposed to Islam will only destroy the lives of people of this world.

    The world as it is today, is proving exactly this point.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    (1) Yes, I do not have the knowledge of a lot of things. I do not know details about many things. I cannot explain a lot of things.

    But that is also because;

    (a) we can't apply our knowledge in life, because we are denied that freedom
    (b) I don't have tools to make it easy for me to learn a lot of stuff, a lot of facts
    (c) We don't have information readily available, as it is with other people
    (d) we are denied the freedom to implement Islami Nizam within our lives, within own country/nation, because of foreign intervention

    (2) Yes, the way I choose is not the best. I choose that way, because I believe it suits the time and place.

    I never professed or claimed to be an 'AALIM'. However, I am a student. I am making an effort to learn more and more.

    In time, I will be able to explain many things, perhaps most things. I am NEVER! going to give up on that.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:45 #
  16. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    The world around us is not perfect. Much of it is built on lies.

    (1) USA can create money out of thin air, but that doesn't make anyone in the world jump out of their chair , on the thought of the absolute inflationary horror that it entails for people of USA and the rest of the world

    (2) Companies who get AAA (tripple A) ratings, are found to be committing crimes in USA. None-the-less, they still get that AAA rating over and over again.

    (3) Avatar recently was denied the Oscar awards, the awards went to another movie i.e., Hurt Locker, even though Avatar is better than Hurt Locker in every respect. Why did they do that ? How can it be explained ?

    (4) USA disintegrates Muslim UMMAH, puts up puppets royal family in KSA to have power of Govt. of this nation state. These people do bidding of USA in KSA. But when local people fight off tyranny by USA and their sponsored puppets ruling in KSA, they are labeled as 'terrorists'. A mass media propaganda campaign is launched against them, they are labeled as 'terrorists' in world-wide mass media campaigns

    (5) Everyone blindly believes what media is telling them, without even questioning it. Media can convert any truth teller into a liar and a liar, a criminal into a hero, but who can explain why this happens ?

    (6) No charges are proven in the court of law against sister Afia, yet she is pronounced guilty. Yet her life is continually destroyed, her misery continues, but who can explain why this goes on ?

    (7) Justice is not served to people of Pakistan, even though we have Laws, we have Judiciary, we have Police, we have Government

    (8) People of this nation are being killed, murdered in cold blood, in the masses by foreigners, even though we have a standing Army, which locals profess to be one of the strongest Army of this world

    (9) Foreign powers finance political campaigns of criminals of our country. Even though we have Laws, Judiciary, Police, Army, those people still get accepted in Election Commission to stand up to represent the people of this nation. They win elections. They destroy this nation. Who can explain why that is happening ?

    (9) Our people vote for these same criminals. They come into power, loot/plunder this nation's money, store it abroad. Other nations benefit from it, while people of this nation are forced to kill their families, commit suicide. Even then, our people vote for the same criminals over and over again. Who can explain this ?

    (10) etc etc

    A lot is happening in the world that;

    (a) cannot be explained as easily as it is expected
    (b) we are not aware of
    (c) we don't have knowledge of
    (d) we don't have readily available knowledge of

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 8:53 #
  17. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ Haris

    I most certainly take full responsibility for my actions. That is why i do not attack those who are differnt from me. I do not concemn those who have stronger arguments than me. And i most certainly do not consider anybody else responsible for my own failings as a human or for any of my own actions and opinions. I would very much like to know how you have derived your conclusion that i do not.

    Anyhow you gave me a nice point by point list of excuses why you attempts to change the world are constantly thwarted. That is of course what they are. They are all proof of why it's "not your fault" and "if only those evil b@st@rds would stop, everything would be peachy.

    If a tactic doesn't work, dear friend, one msut adapt and find a new tactic. one must review and change. one must seek other avenues to achieve one's goal. If you are not doing that and instead putting all of your energy into blaming others for your lack of results, then you are achieving nothing and merely wasting energy on hating and condemning.

    That is what our nation, and every other nation is doing. That is what most human beings do.

    You it's the typical response from a 5th grade child. 'He started it", "If he wasn't doing it i wouldn't have to", "if they weren't being so mean to me, i wouldn't have to be mean to them", "i'll stop when he stops" etc etc.

    i mean come on.. grow up. And i say this with all sincerity to ALL human beings in this world. Grow up and get past the 5th grade and take responsiblity for your own actions AND reactions.

    here are some ways in which you can act positively in spite of the "problems" that you face

    (a) we can't apply our knowledge in life, because we are denied that freedom

    Utter nonsense. This country is full of minorities that are denied their right to express and practice their belief, but they manage not only to do so, but also to thrive and create a harmonious society among themselves. Being true to your belief needs no "freedom". It is something you do no matter what. the Prophet (pbuh) had no freedom to practice or preach his religion, but he never whined about it or told God that "the others wouldn't let him.

    (b) I don't have tools to make it easy for me to learn a lot of stuff, a lot of facts

    if you don't have the tools then look for them. and until you have found them, don't whine. Use the net, travel, seek, debate, review, mediate, pray.. do whatever it takes to get the tools. the fact that they are not being handed to you on a silver plate is no excuse. get to it chop chop. Hating and condemning takes away valuable energy from this pursuit.

    (c) We don't have information readily available, as it is with other people

    Oh well you poor poor thing. Information is readily available if only you will make the effort to understand it. All the information is already there in the Quran. So why don't you spend a few years in thought and prayer to find it. But no.. you want some aalim/mullah/leader to come and give you the "cliff's notes" and give you a digested understanding of the Quran. To him or to his organization you wish to swear allegiance and thus do you wish to enter Heaven... as a "part of the party of XYZ".

    All the answers are there but actually finding the answers and setting your own goals is infinitely harder than blindly following XYZ's interpretation. But if you focused your energies on finding your own understanding, it would seriously take away the energy you need to hate and condemn.

    (d) we are denied the freedom to implement Islami Nizam within our lives, within own country/nation, because of foreign intervention

    oh my god. Foreign intervention??? this is the most tired old worn-out excuse of an excuse. Foreign intervention??

    there is no force on this planet which could prevent you from implemeting islami Nizam in your own life. No power whatsoever. There are plenty of people in this country who implement Islami Nizam in their lives and there's nothing that'll stop them from that. But a "foreign devil" excuse is a great way to excuse yourself from implementing Islami Nizam in your life.. sadly it's not very convincing..

    And btw if Islami Nizam is not being implemented in this nation it is the fault of the PAKISTANI POPULATION.. not of anybody else. It may be because the majority does not agree with your version of islami Nizam. it could be that you are terribly unconvincing in your arguments for your version of islami Nizam. Whatever it is, the "foreign intervention" excuse is nothing more than a sad attempt to absolve one self from one's responsiblity.

    I am glad to hear of your humility regarding your level of knowledge. Only thus will a man continue to study all his life, and only thus will he find strength in his faith.

    But until he has found the answers he must continue to humbly admit that he does not know everything and that his actions and understanding of faith are not perfect.

    and those who are truly humble realize that they have no right or cause to hate and condemn others.

    Do not give up. I commend that. Stay true to your faith and seek to find answers that strengthen it. But when you are faced with facts/circumstances/people/arguments that are stronger than yours, learn from it and expand your mind. Do not descend into the stupidity of passing blame and evading responsiblity.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 9:23 #
  18. @ Bajwa

    'If Pakistan being bullied by world powers, it is Pakistan's own fault.'
    &
    'These clips show actions and issues that are committed by cruel humans in every religion, ethnicity, nation, race, and culture.'

    ------

    Two completey diffrent opinion on same issue.
    i think you are confused ...you should've been more clear.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 9:25 #
  19. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ Haris

    sheesh dude.. don't you get it. Every single human/religion/culture/nation/ehtinicity/race are beset with the same type of problem that you have just listed. So freakin what??

    Does anything rpevent you from being an honest and just person? Does anything prevent you from praying as you wish and believing as you wish? Does anything keep you from gaining knowledge and sharing your opinions?

    Is there really any power in this world that can stand up to the True Faith??

    All of your arguments indivicate that you DO think there are forces more powerful than Truth in this universe.

    All of the above problem will be solved in a jiffy when the RIGHT SOLUTION and the RIGHT IMPLEMENTATION is found. The fact that these problems haven't been resolved only goes to show that the tools and tactics we are using now simply AREN'T WORKING.

    Now should we then start whining and blamin g or should we find some other tools and tactics or even another way to wield those tools and tactics.

    You seem to support the former, whereas any person can see that only the latter will bring the world closer to enlightenment.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 9:32 #
  20. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ iamsowise

    I'm not really understanding your why you are seeing a confusion here.

    If pakistan is being messed with it is it's own fault for allowing that.

    and

    the clips you have posted to show cruel actions that have been committed for a variety of reason by all groupings of humans in history. the problem isn't who does it. The problem is that our species still somehow manages to justify such actions to itself. and instead of dealing with the core issues that create such circumstances, we wind up wasting all our energy condemning and hating.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 9:37 #
  21. hkbajwa
    Member

    Bump topic to the top :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 11:49 #
  22. zia m
    Member

    It is easier said than done.
    How do you get rid of feudalism, blood sucking elitism,bureaucrats and army establishment who are in bed with imperialists.
    The only way out i can see is a revolution.
    But I'm afraid the only people who can bring a revolution is an alliance between illiterate mulla and taliban.
    I don't see an easy way out.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 14:29 #
  23. @zia m
    As you say a revolution only can bring about the required but Mullas and Taliban are not who are able to do that is correct. Only awam guided by an honest leader can do that.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 15:35 #
  24. NNL
    member

    Only awam guided by an honest leader can do that.

    Honest leader ?

    Do you have an Honest Awam ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 15:44 #
  25. A very good question. Only honest leaders emerge from among an honest awam. They simply don't fall off the sky!

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 15:49 #
  26. hkbajwa
    Member

    Which is exactly what my point is. We are in the predicament we are in because we deserve it.

    we can get out of this trouble if we elect an honest leader. But in order to be able to elect an honest leader, we must first make ourselves qualified to identify and elect him.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 15:56 #
  27. zia m
    Member

    The bottomline is Taliban are honest and sincere to their cause.The ones willing to lay down their lives for a cause are not easily defeated.The religious parties are waiting on the sideline to take advantage of the situation created by chaos, They hesitate to openly condemn the extremists, the one who do are eliminated by Taliban.

    TTP has much deeper roots in Pakistan than i previously thought.The government is scared of them, Sharif brothers and Zardari are on Taliban hit list.

    Taliban believe in "ends justify the means."
    It is going to be a very long and messy battle, i see very dark days ahead.
    I hope I'm wrong.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 17:53 #
  28. pappu
    Member

    zia m
    There is an infestation of Taliban in three parts of Punjab that Pakistan has yet to deal with. Taliban have a support network in the shape of JI, JUI, PTI, hizbultahir, lashkir jehngavie, laskhar tayba, laskhar xyz etc. They are being financed by private contributions of rich Arabs and governments of America and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan also has interference by India and Iran. The Taliban ideology has infiltrated the intelligence community. Pakistan has staved off the attempt to talabanize it but a bloody battle awaits us when these merchants of death will strike the innocent civilians of Pakistan to earn their salary from their masters. This is going to be a bumpy and bloody ride so fasten your seat belt.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 18:28 #

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