Discuss » Current Issues

Should they RESIGN?

(30 posts)

  1. LetsDoIt
    Member

    Some Jiyalas are saying one should not resign based on mere accusations, therefore NRO effected ministers should not resign.

    So they should be allowed to prosecute themselves. Rehman malik will prove himself guilty or innocent. Will zardari ever show that he has paid the tax on the money he used to buy Surrey Palace, or what is in the swiss banks.

    Until he will not answer these questions how he can ask NS for how he transferred money to install a steel mill in Saudia or how come his son is doing a buiseness worth billions in London. To question someone else you have to prove yourself clean. Piplyee will never understand this i know......

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:31 #

  2. Salam
    member

    They came in power after 10-11 harsh years, you think they will give up golden duck so quickly and so easily?

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:34 #

  3. truepakistani
    Member

    yes they should resign and face the courts.

    daylight dreams, carry one.

    zardari will die but never quit.

    he accepted 11 years in house arrest but never accepted his corruption, though later cashed all wealth lying in foreign banks.

    criminal has become head of our state,

    we have tavelled very fast from Jinnah to Zardari as head of state,

    ALLAH SE APNE GUNAHOON KE MAFEE MANGNEE CHAHYE.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:41 #

  4. truepakistani
    Member

    NRO was an agreement in between two criminals.

    Mush & benazir Bhutto/Zardari.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:42 #

  5. LetsDoIt
    Member

    TP

    We are not dreaming, we are demanding. I know no one in the Govt. will accept this demand but our voices should be raised. How many times they will reject will of the people?

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:45 #

  6. truepakistani
    Member

    our people are also responsible for promotion of these corrupt rulers/representatives
    as most of our people elect them again & again.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:48 #

  7. LetsDoIt
    Member

    You could not blame people directly. They are deprived to the extent where they could not decide something independently. But still you could see awareness is helping people of pakistan to decide what is better for them.

    You have seen in the last election what had happened with Fazlu and the parties which were supporting Musharraf and same will be repeated with PPP in the next elections and similarly Fouzia wahab and company will be accusing zardari for every thing after the elections.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 9:57 #

  8. msohail83
    Member

    Resign?? That word doesn't exist in their dictionary.

    Look at this loser Pervez Asharf

    Warrants for minister’s arrest issued fourth time

    A local court on Monday again issued non-bailable arrest warrants of Federal Minister for Water and Power Raja Pervaiz Ashraf and others for not appearing in the court, despite repeated summons, to face a criminal case registered in 1998 after they quarreled with the staff of the Lahore High Court (LHC).

    They have zero respect for the rule of law. Why would he not go to the court when he's being summoned to clear himself? What makes him think he's above the law?

    They are good at crying foul, policital victimization, establishment ki sazish, etc.

    Shameless!

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/national/warrants-for-ministers-arrest-issued-fourth-time-419

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 10:01 #

  9. LetsDoIt
    Member

    They should resign or not, its for them to decide. But we should stay vocal on this issue, we should demand what is right.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 10:07 #

  10. Adonis
    Member

    If these people are so averse to resigning from their ministries, perhaps a middle course can be that these ministers are sent on leave by the PM.

    They should stay in this "suspended animation" without getting any pays and perks till their names are cleared by the courts.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 10:07 #

  11. Fahim23
    Member

    They should resign or not it is their personal call! Merely on accusations no one has the right to demand resignation. What we must demand is free and fair trial for Everyone (not just NRO-zadas).

    On the moral grounds whether they resign or resist both can be justified. In case if they feel that they are being trapped or wronged, then it is probably more courageous and brave to resist the pressure and fight on (Like CJ Iftikhar did - he was accused of something which he though was based on false fabricated stories so he stood his ground and fought). In other case when they decide to resign that too is not immoral.

    Now I have asked this question which I am repeating here is that if "accusations" are enough reason to demand resignation then why this demand is exclusive only to those whose names are part of NRO List? I mean is there no corruption charges against Sharif brothers or PMLN government officials governing in Punjab?

    Or this too is the manifestation of Double Standard and hypocritic values in our society?

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 12:06 #

  12. msohail83
    Member

    @fahim

    But they don't even wanna go to the court, my friend. Do you know why Perves Ashraf keeps skipping his court dates w/o any notice?

    I mean think with a neutral mind for a minute.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 12:14 #

  13. gv
    Member

    @fahim

    if a government official cannot prove his/her innocence in the face of corruption and/or misgovernance allegations - the honourable thing to do is to resign...

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 12:23 #

  14. Salam
    member

    honorable thing?

    lolz!

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 12:46 #

  15. Fahim23
    Member

    @msohail

    I think no one really "Wants" to go to the court. We need to have a state with functioning systems which can hold people accountable in free and fair manner. Unfortunately we don't even try to talk about establishing those systems. All we concentrate on restoring CJ IMC and sacking Rehman Malik!

    @gv

    I think the onus of proving something is on the accuser not on the accused. And if there is financial corruption, you just need proper "Auditing" and can held the minister of that department responsible.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 12:49 #

  16. msohail83
    Member

    "I think no one really "Wants" to go to the court."

    Mashallah, in shehzadon ke liye sepcial court lagani paray gi aiwan e sadar mein.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 12:51 #

  17. gv
    Member

    in the case of a public figure - responsible for public well being - the onus is very much on that self same public figure..

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 13:04 #

  18. LetsDoIt
    Member

    I am really surprised by the logic given by jiyalas. Sometimes i really think whether they are loyal to the country or to the party (only the name of the party).

    Look at their demand (in the post of Fahim) why there are no corruption charges on SS or NS. Now my question is who will accuse NS or SS, media or Your GOVT.. Look at you guys even you people have expectations with the media not with your Govt., even you look for judiciary not for your govt. when you want something positive.

    The people of pakistan are demanding crystal clear accountability and across the board not from PPP only.

    Secondly you could not compare them with CJ. Did CJ took help from some black law to remove the allegations against him? or CJ was investigating himself against the charges made on him?

    Here Rehman malik is interior minister, will he investigate and prove him guilty or will he prove himself innocent? even if he is innocent (which i dont even think in my dreams) and he will call himself innocent, who will believe?????? may be jiyalas will believe only but they will call Rehman malik innocet even if Rehman malik declares himself guilty..

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 13:19 #

  19. Fahim23
    Member

    @Letsdoit

    You fail to get my point. All I am saying that we have always indulged ourselves in self-satisfying rhetorics, double standards and hypocritic values. When first PCO of CJ IMC is halal and 2nd is Haram. When NRO Zada are haram and NAB Zada are halal. And here I was referring to the Gladiators of Media! they are not demanding accountability across the board. They can't even dare to speak against Pak Army (who is declared the most corrupt institution in Pakistan) or civil bureaucrats.

    For them Politicians are easy punching bags and they are hitting them hardly!

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 13:24 #

  20. LetsDoIt
    Member

    My dear, you failed to get my point also. My point is, one person could hold another accountable only when he himself is clear.

    Politicians have a great power they could for sure hold Army Generals accountable but they need a clear face for that.

    Why only politicians are accused, its very simple. Its people who could hold politicians accountable and its politicians who could hold rest accountable. Secondly others could not do any corruption without taking politicians on board.

    In very simple words, its not our task to hold army generals or bureaucrats accountable. Its the job of Parliamentarians/cabinet/govt. Our task is to criticize only those who made promises with us to held these people accountable while begging for our votes.

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 13:44 #

  21. Fahim23
    Member

    @Letsdoit

    The fathers of modern america were War criminals, corrupt and everything bad that you can possibly imagine. They actually wiped out the indigienous population and raised their empire on the bones of red indians.

    How did they evolved then into world super power? They let their system work which we don't! In every society, it is only Elite who is "naturally" more likey to raise through the corridors of Power. Till Pakistan as a society do not develop a substantial middle class, we will only see leaders from elite society which are 99% times corrupt in one way or other.

    And bro, in order to develop that we need patience. We (the people I mean) need to exploit this conducive envioronment where we can force this inept, corrupt government do what we think is better for us. We should be ever viggilant and on our toes till the strong elite is replaced by strong middle class. And IMO in these modern times with access of information and knowledge we just need 10 years for that!

    And yes I agree with you that in order to held Executive accountable, the public should hold their representatives accountable. And the media too should force our politicians that they should focus them! We all know that there are only 342 Parliamentarians and only few percentage of them is corrupt!

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 18:36 #

  22. javedsheikh
    Members

    Pakistan needs stability at Administration.

    * Americans elected 44 Presidents from 1789 to 2009.
    * Indians elected 15 Prime Ministers from 1947 to 2009.
    * Pakistanis elected 21 Prime Ministers
    * Four Military Dictators captured power without Elections.
    Total 25 from 1947 to 2009.
    Not a single Prime Minister in Pakistan completed the full Constitution tenure of the Office. (Not even Z.A. Bhutto, who served as Prime Minister from 1973 to 1997. Before that he stayed as President).

    Posted 2 years ago on 24 Nov 2009 19:16 #

  23. Beenai
    Moderator

    stability at what cost ?
    i guess ,if a corrupt is eating out the country with his looters gang ,we should NOT let it be like that ,just for the sake of stability ....

    should we ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Nov 2009 8:29 #

  24. Pak Truth
    Member

    They should face the court. No resignation. Court should be fair enough to decide. The individuals who have been benefited while in Zia, NS, Mushraf and BB for eating loan should also be put on mat.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Nov 2009 8:36 #

  25. LetsDoIt
    Member

    @Fahim and JS

    Stability is not acquired with time always. The most important thing to acquire stability is the public support. Without weakening public support no one could derail the democratic Govt.

    To get public support sometimes you have to do decisions by which you could earn public support. If you see in the past our Govt. has not earned any profit from the decisions which they made on public pressure so in return the public support is Nill..

    So this is a chance, nothing will happen to the PPP ministers if they resign because the prosecution has to be done by their own Govt. So soon they will be free citizen and they could join back their posts with more integrity. But if they do not do this, may be some one else will force them to do this and then he will be the real hero and Govt. will be villain once again. (Piyaz bhi aur jotay bhi)

    But the actual problem is they dont even trust each other, they know if some one else will take their responsibility they will never be called again and by keeping this attitude instead of attaining stability they will go to unstable condition where people will again wish and wait for a savior coming in uniform. Without their mistakes no one could even think of derailing this Govt. and democratic process.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Nov 2009 9:28 #

  26. javedsheikh
    Members

    Resignation or reshuffling of ministers or internal preferences is a democratic process and is not a concern.

    The demand for a Mid-term Elections or removing a Democratic Government before its Constitutional term, should not be supported as this process has already inflicted much damage to Pakistan.

    People should be constantly educated and kept in loop, about performance of the Government, through Media and Opinion Forums.
    Let the voters offer them a landslide defeat in the next elections in 2012.

    Posted 2 years ago on 25 Nov 2009 16:37 #

  27. AHR
    Member

    So the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) beneficiaries list comes out. The media is happy that those persons who enjoyed taking advantage of the NRO have light casted upon them, while the government is trying to push forward the argument of how they have respected the Supreme Court’s judgment and have publicized the list. It seems to be a win-win situation for all parties. But is it really? Calls for the resignation of ministries and portfolios have echoed from all corners. How has this zero-sum game turned into a finger-pointing-name-calling battle?

    http://ahraza.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/so-what-its-just-the-nro/

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Nov 2009 7:27 #

  28. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    As far as I know, Farooq Sattar is ready to go to court, thats what I call a man. MQM has been facing courts on countless charges, and it will continue doing so.
    I respect that move.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Nov 2009 7:29 #

  29. Beenai
    Moderator

    @MQM has been facing courts on countless charges, and it will continue doing so.
    @quaidkamazar,
    do u really mean more murders?

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Nov 2009 9:19 #

  30. Adonis
    Member

    If MQM is so eager to face courts, why they chose to avail the benefit of NRO?

    They could have refused any NRO benefit and instead could have asked courts to decide the cases on merit. It rings quite hollow now to claim of being ready for courts when NRO is dead.

    Posted 2 years ago on 26 Nov 2009 12:33 #

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