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Discuss » Current Issues
Shaheed Benazir and Shaheed Bhutto postage stamps (Real)
(42 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago on 10 Oct 2008 8:00 #
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Big deal. Political leaders are routinely on stamps everywhere.
Incidentally it was musharraf who got an essay on his mother included in text books. Now that is unheard of except for in stalinist dictatorships.
Posted 3 years ago on 10 Oct 2008 9:36 # -
we wud be ending up having all the airports ,railway stations, malls, parks,jails,apartemnts,factories and casinos naming at BB Shaheed...
and what can we expect from a lul Govt like the PPP Shaheed party????yah...PPP is itself got martyered by none other than Damad e Shaheed Bhutto.
Posted 3 years ago on 10 Oct 2008 9:50 # -
is this Islamic Republic or Shaheed republic pakistan, anyways Shaheed Limited Party can do anything in self praise... becoz this is the only way of thier survival ,,,
Posted 3 years ago on 10 Oct 2008 11:19 # -
the present ppp people knows that if they would not mention mr bhutto and ms bhutto then thier voters will reject them becoz ppp leadership has no creebility , no performance, no capability ....to execute its slogan roti kapra aur makaan.. now they have only one wazeefa shaheed, shaheed,shaheed,, they r habitual with playing this slogan at all cost, even if they dont have shaheed, they produce shaheed on urgent basis a as and when required,,, great spirit.
Posted 3 years ago on 10 Oct 2008 11:24 # -
in few months new stams will from taliban ,Ony eye Mulla Umer will be on Picture .
Posted 3 years ago on 10 Oct 2008 11:58 # -
Adonis,
But when were roads, airports, roundabouts, hospitals, ration cards, income support programmes ever named after Musharraf?
And, show me when Bush or Blair or Brown or Sarkozy or Angela Merkel issued stamps with their pictures on it? Its only done for past rulers who are recognised as leaders with significant contribution (eg. Abraham Lincoln) or for controlling/exploiting people through nationalistic emotions (eg. Mao, who by the way, would commit suicide if he saw today's China)
In Stalinist dictatorships, statues of Stalin are erected everywhere, all the newspapers are run by Stalin's spokesperson and any form of dissidence is crushed and those who dissent are brought to prisons and shot. Pakistan was a partial-dictatorship at best under Musharraf, just like it is now under Zardari.
Posted 3 years ago on 11 Oct 2008 0:29 # -
DOES ANY BODY KNOWS WHEN WILL BE MUSHRAF ON STAMP?
Posted 3 years ago on 11 Oct 2008 10:48 # -
Thanks God i was in opposed PPP 88 - 2008, even thought i consider myself from left wing.........
wondering where are PPP and BB lovers these days...Posted 3 years ago on 11 Oct 2008 15:25 # -
@ secular
Bush, blair and brown may not have stamps with their faces printed on them but faces of many dead leaders adorn stamps of those countries. Similarly the stamps in our case show faces of banazir and her father who are both dead. There is no zardari on the stamps.
Whetehr you like them or hate them but teh fact is that Z A Bhutto and Benazir enjoyed support from a large section of teh society and were legally elected prime ministers. On the other hand I do not know about any achievement of zareem musharraf.
BTW, only in stalinist dictatorships were people abducted from their homes by state agencies and their families were never told whether they were dead or alive for years. Musharraf's rule certainly brought Pakistan into the category of such countries.
Posted 3 years ago on 11 Oct 2008 16:35 # -
Postal Stamps reflect the history and culture of a country.
One should be broadminded to tolerate the realities even one doesn't like.
I won't object if personalities like Maulana Maudoodi, Zia-ul-Haq, Mujib-ul-Rahman, Yahya Khan, Wali Khan, Zahoor Elahi, Khwaja Rafiq and others are put at the face of postal stamps of Pakistan.
Even I will support to issue postal stamps in the memory of great singers, film stars, poets and musicians like Noor Jahan, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Ustad Amanat Ali Khan, Roshan Ara Begum, Mohammad Ali, Sultan Rahi, Fiaz Ahmad Faiz, Qateel Shifai, Ahmad Nadeem Qasmi, Habib Jalib, Ahmad Faraz and others.http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C12%5C24%5Cstory_24-12-2006_pg7_39
Posted 3 years ago on 11 Oct 2008 18:13 # -
Benazir was a great leader ...
but priniting her pic based stamps are not the only way to pay tribute to her.
we shud think about it.
if we reinstate CJ Iftikhar ,it wud b a great tribute to her ..
remember..she went to CJ Iftikhar house and announced her commitment to reinstate him ,admitting him as Her Cheif Justice...
Mr.Zardari and his team has short memories ....
so i have to make them remember this event too...
thanksPosted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 5:02 # -
Adonis,
Anyone on postage stamps need to be less controversial and more wideley accepted as someone who made significant contribution. Benazir is anything but that. All this is partisan politics to fool the jahil awam and exploit them through emotional propoganda. Seriously! Even PPPs votebank is the rural uneducated classes!
How popular was BB when her govt. was dismissed? Even PPP jiyalas were pelting her convoy with stones when her govt. was dismissed. Do not forget every time all these so called democratic rulers and their govts. were overthrown, the overwhelming majority supported and cheered the dismissal. As far as democracy goes, I am not a big fan of democracy, it is a system, as someone mentioned, in which heads are counted, and, not the weight. Whats popular is not necessarily right or wise. Democracy is highly over-rated, specially for poor developing countries. And I dont understand why Pakistani people think dictators only come in uniforms! They come in all sizes shapes colors and clothes! From Ayub to Yahya to ZA Bhutto to Zia BB to Nawaz Sharif to Musharraf Zardari, all were/are (partial) dictators.
Popularity is a temporary thing and it fluctuates greatly with time. All rulers had their popular and unpopular times, Musharraf had more of the former than most other Pakistani rulers. Should I remind you that his popularity was in the 60s and 70s (percentange) until 2007, thats a long time (1999 to 2007). Pick up your Gallup and IRI surveys.
Abduction of people by security agencies happened in Pakistan before Musharraf, and, it will go on long after he is gone.
Beena,
How was Benazir a great leader?
She was in power twice, what vision did she give us? What was so great about her? She didnt do much apart from laundering hundreds of millions into her foreign accounts.
Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 6:17 # -
@beenai
mary hua baba ki bary bary aankhain.Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 10:39 # -
@ secular_pakistan
One should be broadminded to tolerate the realities even one doesn't like.
I won't object if personalities like Maulana Maudoodi, Zia-ul-Haq, Mujib-ul-Rahman, Yahya Khan, Wali Khan, Zahoor Elahi, Khwaja Rafiq and others are put at the face of postal stamps of Pakistan.
Even I will support to issue postal stamps in the memory of great singers, film stars, poets and musicians like Noor Jahan, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Ustad Amanat Ali Khan, Roshan Ara Begum, Mohammad Ali, Sultan Rahi, Fiaz Ahmad Faiz, Qateel Shifai, Ahmad Nadeem Qasmi, Habib Jalib, Ahmad Faraz and others.
In Pakistan unfortunately, with the exception of the Quaid-i-Azam, every leader, Politician, writer, poet, journalist, teacher, Judge, public servant, artist is controversial.
Once I asked the same question to name a few of those whom you can put at the calendar or postal stamps.
Even you will find people crying against Justice Chaudry Iftikhar, one of the most respectable members of the Judiciary, Pakistan has ever produced.Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 12:03 # -
@ secular
Please show me one gallup/IRI survey showing musharraf's popularity at 60 or 70%.
Take your pick, anytime between 1999 till he ran away with his tail between his legs.
Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 12:25 # -
@ Adonis,
You are right.
Still I won't object, where the Parliament decides to put his picture at the face of a postal stamp, after his death. (I wish a long life for Him)Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 12:59 # -
There are a lot sportsmen who gave us moments of joy. Imran Khan, Javed miandad, 2Ws, Jahanghir Khan, Jan Sher Khan, Hassan Sardar, Sameeullah, Shahbaz,....etc.
Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 14:42 # -
According to my research, mostly the celebrities and personalities are put at the postal stamps after their death.
The postal department has issued 100 postal stamps in the last 41 years featuring personalities, like Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Allama Iqbal, Jehangir Khan, Ustad Allah Baksh, Mirza Ghalib, Imtiaz Ali Taj, Fridausi and Sher Shah Suri.
The official said the government had issued a series of stamps on the first birth centenary of Begum Ra’na Liaqat Ali Khan and another one on eminent painters of Pakistan, in 2006. These painters include Prof Shakir Ali, Sadequain, Zubaida Agha, Ahmed Pervez, Zahoorul Akhlaq, Anna Molka Ahmed, Ali Imam, Laila Shehzada, Bashir Mirza and Askari Mian Irani.
There are some other ways to recognize and pay the respect to our heroes who are still alive.Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 17:11 # -
It can be the begining of a new era to honor the living legends.....innovation towards improvement is always there.
Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 18:44 # -
Aik Admi ne Fish Pakri...
Biwi Boli,
mein khana nahi paka sakti,
kiyun ke…
Na Gas Hay,
Na Ata Hay,
Na Bijli Hay,
Na Oil,
Admi Ye Sab Sunke Fish wapas Darya me daal aya,
Fish ooper aai,
aur Zor se Naara lagaya...
.
.
.
.
.
.
JIAY BHUTTO...
JIAY ASIF ZARDARI...
Posted 3 years ago on 13 Oct 2008 18:51 # -
PPP election symbol the arrow to be erected as a monument in Karachi
Monday, October 13, 2008
KarachiThe design for a monument to be erected in the memory of the victims who died in the October 18 bomb blasts at the welcome rally of the late Benazir Bhutto last year has been approved by Sindh Chief Minister (CM) Syed Qaim Ali Shah. The CM will inaugurate the construction of the monument at Karsaz on Saturday.
Confirming this, official sources said that many designs were presented to the CM, of which he approved one. The monument will be a 54-foot high “arrow”, the PPP election symbol, and will be built on the green belt on the site of the blasts in which more than 150 people were killed and hundreds injured during the welcome rally of Benazir Bhutto.
The monument’s height of 54 feet has symbolic value, with Benazir being 54 years old at the time of the incident.
The monument will be made of concrete, and the PPP has decided that big portraits of the late Benazir would also be displayed at the site.
The decision to construct the monument was taken when the PPP came to power and different designers had been working on this project. The party decided to unveil this monument on the one-year anniversary of the incident.
Posted 3 years ago on 14 Oct 2008 0:57 # -
IRI Survey
http://www.iri.org/mena/pakistan/pdfs/2007-04-26-pakistan1.pdf
President Musharraf's approval ratings (page 1):
June 2006 - 60% Approve, 14% disapprove
Sept 2006 - 63% Approve, 12% disapprove
March 2007 - 54% Approve, 26% disapprove
The downward trend in President Musharraf's popularity started in 2007 after the dismissal of Justice Chaudhry, after 7 years in power.
Posted 3 years ago on 14 Oct 2008 1:06 # -
Then Pakistan should have 777 feet high, 777 statues of Musharaf, in 77 big cities.
Posted 3 years ago on 14 Oct 2008 3:59 # -
@Secular,
i guess popularity of PPP is sliding down more faster than Musharraf..
after they bluffed about US war on terror policy..
after they killed lawyers movement through Aitzaz Ahsan.
after they have started praising US ..
after they fall in love with Sarah Palin BB..
after they fail to understand and act according to public wishes....
after their failure to over come Musharrafic problems of Atta,Bijli crisis.
after thier failure to go for a impeachment of Musharraf..
after thier insensitive statements on Marriot blast....
after thier failure to defend thier own policies on TV channels.
after thier failure to make one single policy of thier own....thier graph of popularity is going down in a very steep angle....
its starting point was NRO ..deal between Zinda BB and Mush...
dont know what the XX end point of this falling down graph of popularity.Posted 3 years ago on 14 Oct 2008 4:59 # -
@ secular.
Ok. point taken.
Posted 3 years ago on 14 Oct 2008 5:50 # -
RDA okays remodelling of Benazir Road
OnlineRAWALPINDI: On the recommendations of City Traffic Police, the RDA has approved remodelling of Benazir Bhutto Shaheed Road and installation of modern traffic signals in the city.
This was decided in a meeting held between Chief Traffic Officer SSP Raja Riffat Mukhtar and RDA Director General Makeen Shahbaz while SSP Malik Matloob Awan assisted the CTO.
A seven-member team of the RDA Engineering Department has been formed for redesigning of Benazir Bhutto Shaheed Road which would complete its homework within a month. The meeting decided that all roundabouts at Benazir Bhutto Shaheed Road will be redesigned along with repair of traffic signals at Saidpur Road within a month.
Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 5:37 # -
Benazir lifafas ..Benazir tissue papers..Benazir napkins ...benazir dish wash bar...
benazir mop,benazir toliet cleaner,benazir towels,benazir shower gel,benazir face wash,benazir rubber stamp,benazir dolls,benazir chamchas ,benazir **** pakai roti .anyone to add any thing else?
Benazir **** pakai roti is avaible in President house for free.
Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 7:01 # -
the most worst product is Benazir husband... unbearable.
Actually our political leadership believes in artificial actions like stamps, roads name, momentums etc,. they r not capable or don’t want to do actual actions/initiatives which can give real benefits/ relief to the public like to build schools /colleges, hospitals, parks, roads etc,. They r fake people and doing fake worksPosted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 8:25 # -
LOL
No matter how many times the official press releases call its Benazir Road, I have yet to meet even one person who calls it by this name.
For everybody, it was, is and will be Murree Road.
Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 8:33 # -
i had came across a news item ,as a ticker in the news channel the other day.
which says
Benazir Bhutto mein 8 ghuntay ki musalsal load shedding....
its funny....
they actually meant Nawabshah ..which is named after BB...they dont know..
load shedding in Benazir had started from the day she married to Mr.Zardari.
that led her to an unfortunate end (not at all unfortunate for her hubby though)Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 8:59 # -
thats what I said earlier, BB khao, BB pehno aur BB main raho. Asif Bhutto Zardari ney roti kapra makan ka wada puur ker diyya.
Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 13:22 # -
the junglee ppp will break traffic lights on bhutto shaheed first before any others.
Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 17:18 # -
Mohtarma Shaheed Bhatoo Mohtarma Shaheed Bhatoo Mohtarma Shaheed Bhatoo Mohtarma Shaheed Bhatoo All PPP's Jiyalays are harping the same string but the nation is interested only in What is the OUTPUT of this JIAYALA's TEAM.???
Posted 3 years ago on 15 Oct 2008 22:07 # -
OUTPUT ???
what r u talking about?Zardari has become richest man of Pakistan...
Zaradri s kids future has become safest than any Pakistani kid....
Bakhtawer Bhtto has just joined london school ...
Bilawel is already graduting from Harward University.....
Zardari is setting up a new branch of his business in Dubai....thanks to PPP for these outcomes for the greater interest of Pakistan.
Posted 3 years ago on 16 Oct 2008 7:25 # -
Having read some of the comments on this thread and the many others (not all) I thought it necessary to make a contribution:
This is from the prospective of a noble Muslim with a grasp of Islam looking at the current state of Muslims generally and Muslims of Pakistan specifically and giving them sincere advice.
In the name of the Allah the Most Powerful, Most deserving of Obedience and the One to be feared the Most.
I look upon your country and see a land which Allah (swt) blessed with immense resources, one of the top ten producers of wheat, yet the people die of food shortage, , one of the top ten producers of Milk, yet many can not afford to drink it, one of the largest populations but no-one to make use of it and with the 7th largest army but not one man amongst them who has honour and shame.
Foreign powers abuse your land like the pimp abuses his prostitute, they insult your people and comment that your mothers are less important to you then money,yet your rulers run to them, they use your armies to fight its own people, yet not one of them has any shame. Repeated rulers have come and each has been accused of corruption and damaging your nation, each has bent over more then the one before to serve foreigners over Pakistan's inhabitant's, yet your intelligence never allows you to comprehend, the new is from the old. The power has always been concentrated in either the land owners, business owners or the Army, your history shows a nation which has continued to regress, yet your blind allegiances or political nativity has continued to lead you to chase false solutions.
Allah the most high, sent a Messenger to you, who brought a complete Deen to guide you in all aspects of life, yet you chose to mock it through ignorance and arrogance. As for the ignorant, they think Islam and life (politics) do not mix, they see politics as something dirty, allowing the same foreigners that abuse them dictate to them the agenda, its definition and ultimately their subservience. Politics is to look after the affairs of people, this can be done in a good or bad way. The Deen that Prophet (saaw)brought, gave the guiding principles and details on conducting public life, be that economic, social, education, ruling, penal code and foreign policy, yet your ignorance means you thought your minds god instead of the guidance forwarded to you and decided you knew more about the 21st century then Allah (swt), and therefore some rubbish taken from this nation and that was better then the divine guidance..NO you never said those words but you defended man made rule though the stupidity of some when they tried to defend democracy and the political nativity of others who try to defend it when their minds where still living under the British occupation.
Did you ever try to go back to your history and learn, one comment on one thread read: we are in the 21st century, as if to say, the author created himself and the world around him and is in a better position to understand it then the creator of heaven, earth, America, UK and its allies.As for the arrogant: they think because they were born in Pakistan and choose to follow its news, they are in a better position to understand their salvation, yet their ego's fails to understand they been there for 60 years and where was their intelligence or realization?
They think their education in a western school, gives them elevation over others, yet they are so blind that the foreigner powers conditioned them to view the reality around them through the westerners narrow eyes and prepared them like a mother prepares a child, to follow its ideals and as obedient children their masters say a word and they repeat as it were revelation.
We need America and UK, Musharraf was doing things for the benefit of Pakistan and the new government can bring change. All illusions and mirages. US/UK has never done anything for the benefit of any nation, only for their interests, a simple reading of their guiding principles will tell one that. As for Musharraf, he led the nation into US dominance claiming weakness, why the 7th largest army? If the Philippines can summon the British ambassador without a shred of an Army, then the 7th largest with nuclear power has to beg and bow to its enemies? only cowards can be proud of such a stance, yet they talk to their own like the tyrants of history did.It is high time you opened your eyes and learned what your Deen has to offer, does the current financial crisis not make you open your eyes and see the failure of the Western systems? If thinkers in the western lands are questioning their own guiding principles, nations where less then 40% of the population votes due to distrust, yet you Muslims of Pakistan can be so foolish as to follow those who do not believe in their own values?
Islam offers a comprehensive system for change, Islam is not he Mullah, only the foolish who refuse to study or think themselves too arrogant to do so, think Islam has clergy and they brand that around. There was no clergy inthe time of your Prophet, the rightly guided Khulafa, the Tabie'een and Tabi Tabie'een, it is every Muslims duty to study his Deen.
Islam is not five pillars, that is the opinion of the ignorant or the foolish, the Messenger (saaw) came with a message, its revelation spanning some 23 years, endless Quran & Hadith dealing with life's issue and you fools deduce 5 pillars and you chose to follow without questioning?
The prophet established a power in Madina, not by chance but design, he headed that state and conducted its affairs, this is not history lessons, but guidance for humanity, take time to learn. The Prophet (saaw) said: If you have nothing good to say, keep your mouth shut, if you don't understand Islam, at least stop defending or speaking favorably about those matters that contradict Islam.
Islam is not the MMA in coalition, it is more then that, it is unique and bringing it into existence means US/UK will not be happy with you and cause you pain, but in the long term it is better for you, only if you knew.
Islam is not terrorists/ terrorism, I read some comments using these slogans, Allah Akbar, the naiveness makes one sick. Western commentators are questioning the whole notion of terrorism, yet some disillusioned people here use that terminology, do you not know this is US/UK war on Islam. They are using this to create a global opinion to justify entering Muslim lands, like I said earlier colonized minds, should I expect more?
Its time you looked away from the current political circle of subjugation, I saw Bhutto lead your country twice with disastrous consequences (I am sure some who benefited from her rule or those who judge by individual experiences as opposed to impact upon the nation will disagree), she was removed for corruption yet when she returned to ask for another term many were chanting, it was said by our Prophet(saaw): there will come a time when the undeserving will rule you or you will get the rulers you deserve. A person robs the country, is ousted for corruption charges, known to be a liar, allowed husband to take kickbacks from government contracts, gives up nuclear weapons to foreign powers and returns claiming to provide this and that and the Muslims of Pakistan chant her name and cry at her death, why? Only to remain silent when her criminal husband comes to power, and some are still foolish enough to be looking at PPP pr PML, was Nawaz Sharif not ousted for corruption?
Is it not time for change? Does Pakistan not need an Islamic State? How many will learn about it to understand what it is and how it functions before writing shallow articles not deserving of a response?
A system that will:
1) Expel US/UK and other hostile nation embassies from its lands
2) Spread its Nuclear weapons across the country as a deterrent against any hostile nations
3) Expel any hostile media outlets
4) Free itself from the shackles of the IMF and World Bank
5) Not sell its wheat and produce at the fraction of the price it has to buy back tot he western nations, though corrupt politicians, Yes Mr showkat Aziz.
6) It will form relations with nations based upon its interests with nation not hostile to it
7) It will expel US troops, their intelligence agencies and retract any support for the war on Islam
8) The leadership of Islam will be servants to its people and not servants to its enemies.
9) Its political leadership will be based on Iman and Taqwa, not based on how much my family and I can clean out from the public funds to build our fortune.
10) A leadership with a political will and not cowards who will sell their families for their seats.Is nit not time for such leadership???
The last thing I would like to say:
Allah has full power over all matters but most amongst men know it not (TMQ)
Posted 3 years ago on 30 Oct 2008 13:58 # -
these are pity matters. Benazir and her father was a great leaders. unfortunatly , anti PPP elements starts their propaganda agaisnt the party whenever it comes into power. this party always came into power in crises , let them complete their tenure once if u believe in democracy.
Posted 3 years ago on 30 Oct 2008 15:12 # -
Great leaders my rear lol
Benazir was prime minister twice, what greatness did she accomplish? What great vision did she give for Pakistan?
Posted 3 years ago on 30 Oct 2008 21:11 # -
Its because of her vision ur discussing here politics. the credit of gving voice goes to her fatehr and Leaders of PPP. Introduction of Pakistan Nuclear programme , land reforms, Paksitan labour laws , Contituation of Pakistan arre only few exmples of PPP vision.
Posted 3 years ago on 31 Oct 2008 9:51 # -
Because of HER vision or her FATHERS vision? Make up your mind boy. They are two completely different people with different ideologies and policies.
I am discussing politics here is because of a little invention called the internet which gave everyone a voice, and, because of Musharraf, who freed the electronic media and everyone started taking interest in their own country and its politics and became aware of what was going on.
PPP, both under BB and under Bhutto, has been devastating for Pakistan, its economy, its govt. and beuracracy. They introduced jiyala culture and union mafias and socialism (just look at PIA) and rampant corruption.
Nuclear programme, contrary to popular belief was started by Ayub in the 60s. And the constituition of Pakistan is a piece of ****, it should be burnt and a new framework should be laid for effective and representative govt. (Ideally, but this will never happen and the fuedals and the beuracrats and the sarkari mulazims will never let it happen)
I personally think Bhutto and Gen. Zia (bhutto's chamcha general) have been the most devastating for Pakistan. But, Gen. Zia did beat a superpower, the Soviets, and, kicked them out of the Afghanistan.
Posted 3 years ago on 31 Oct 2008 19:42 # -
1. Gen. Zia defeated and kicked the Soviets out of Afghanistan but could not achieve the freedom for Kashmir.
2. Now someone will come up with the logic that Bahdur Shah Zafar and Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, not the Qauid-i-Azam and the Muslim League, created Pakistan.
3. "And the Constitution of Pakistan is a piece of ****". Only a TRUE Pakistani can write this beautiful sentence.
One should not be so arrogant and biased to rule out the bitter realities of History.Posted 3 years ago on 31 Oct 2008 23:10 # -
The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq & now moving to Pakistan are purely to get hold of resources & admistrative control of these lands. To get legtimize these wars & continuous financial/moral/manpower backing from rest of the world, these wars are blended with religous fanatism (crusaders&taliban).
Posted 3 years ago on 01 Nov 2008 0:53 #
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