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HT "Revivalists" and Denouncers

(42 posts)
  1. Dervaish
    Member

    The following article is by the ex HT monster, Maajid Nawaz. He is now singing all the "right" songs that his masters love to hear and he is being nicely rewarded for his songs as well. They, these pathetic opportunists, become even more pathalogical and dangerous after they renounce their former noxious ideologies like the kind of pious bile that HT propagates in the name of Islam. Here we have a clear example of how the whole game is played. This guy is not particularly forthcoming, though.

    Revivalist (pkpolitics member): when are you renouncing by the way?
    Read and think.
    ----------------------
    From the http://www.guardian.co.uk

    Ten years ago, I was sent from Britain by a global Islamist group to recruit in Pakistan. Stepping off the plane in Lahore, I slowly breathed in the scene around me. With minarets and azans almost like background props and mood music, the Muslims I saw in every direction whetted my appetite for revolution. We were going to radicalise the country and foment a military coup against the democratically elected "client" ruler, Nawaz Sharif. I was 21 years old. I was part of a vanguard to set up a Pakistani branch of Hizb ut Tahrir (HT), so that their future caliphate could go nuclear. Nothing was going to get in my way. Nothing did.

    Ten years on (during which I spent five years as a prisoner of conscience in Egypt), I recently returned. I had left HT and recanted Islamism. I was back, determined to reverse some of the Islamist fever I had helped instil. Whereas in 1999 Pakistanis thought my wife and I were Arabs due to her "Egyptian" headscarf, now rumours were rife about acid attacks on women walking the streets uncovered. I was older, wiser and smarter. This time, the revolution would be against Islamist hegemony.

    I was on a four-week, nationwide university tour to speak against Islamism and to urge students towards pluralistic, democratic values. Contrary to western mythology, Islamist radicals are found among the educated, the elite and the socially mobile. Yes, a minority of Pakistani madrasas provide an ample supply of jihadists, but the ideologues are smart and modern.

    Bin Laden, Zawahiri or, indeed, the many pseudo-intellectuals of HT are highly educated and socially mobile. Many madrasas are simply antiquated religious schools belonging to the conservative but apolitical Barelvis, Pakistan's majority religious denomination. Jihadists despise this faction. Nine days ago, a jihadist blew himself up in a Pakistani mosque, murdering the leader of the Barelvis, Dr Sarfraz Naeemi. The poor are simply used as jihadist cannon fodder.

    Thus it was that we began in Karachi and worked our way around the country. We ventured deep into the deserts of interior Sindh and then across into the turbulent outback of Quetta, Balochistan, where the Taliban and al-Qaida fighters are said to be headquartered. From there, we crossed into the Punjab, ascended into Kashmir and then finally up to Islamabad. In our flak jackets, with a security detail in tow, we addressed thousands of students.

    In Quetta, armed separatist students threatened to shoot anyone coming to the talk. Their gripe was with the Pakistani government from which they wanted independence. Like so many things in Pakistan, our role in this was eventually settled over a cup of "chai".

    My first real taste of the diversity that is Pakistan came here. I met popular revolutionaries who despised Islamists, yet wanted to secede, in some cases by violence, from Pakistan and "Punjabi hegemony". They began their speeches in the name of Allah, but ended with: "Death to Pakistan." They blamed the "Punjabi" government squarely for the ills of jihadism. Destroying Pakistan was not exactly on my agenda.

    Pakistan and its problems are not monolithic and are not all related to Islamism. Corruption, ethnic and economic factors and a lack of leadership all play out differently in each province. I found the people of Sindh to be hugely sympathetic to our message. Conversely, the people of Mirpur, in "free" Kashmir, from where more than 90% of British Pakistanis come, and where sterling is a currency of choice, were hostile to the west. It was in Punjab where I found most of the denial culture. The west was to blame for everything, including sending me as an agent to set up HT in Pakistan and then as an agent trying to push back HT. You see, the trouble with conspiracy theories is that they were invented by the infidel west to stop Muslims thinking.

    In Lahore, I was attacked by a British member of HT. He, like many others, had left the UK to recruit vulnerable Pakistani students. He was also a teacher at a private university. After this attack, we started receiving death threats. Our security advised us to cancel the rest of the tour. We chose to carry on.

    It is true that Pakistan has exported its fair share of Jamaat-e-Islami Islamists and pro-Taliban jihadists to British shores. Many Pakistanis are in denial about the role their country has played in the growth of Islamism and jihadism. When we pushed them, however, most acknowledged the rise of the "religious right". Denial is never a good thing when trying to solve a problem.

    Here in the UK, after the release without charge of the 12 Pakistani student terrorism suspects, we could do with a dose of truth serum too. During the rise of British Islamism in the 1990s, HT was exported to Pakistan from Britain by the likes of me. In London, in 2000, I met Sandhurst-trained Pakistani officers who had been recruited from here and were being sent back to Pakistan to instigate a military coup.

    The man who physically attacked me was a British citizen who joined HT in the UK. British members of HT also played crucial roles in exporting their group to Indonesia, Malaysia, Kenya, Mauritius, India, Egypt and Denmark, among others. I know because in each case I know the people who did it. Only when the people and governments of Britain and Pakistan take responsibility for the rot on their doorsteps can we start moving seriously towards solutions for the problem of extremism.

    Our tour was partly to initiate such a thought process. By showing people that one does not have to be against Islam to be against Islamism, we hope to resolve the moral dilemma that many face.

    Military means can only ever be a stop-gap. As the near Taliban takeover in the northern regions of Pakistan showed, if civil society cannot segregate the masses from Islamists, then American drone attacks will be the least of our worries.

    • Maajid Nawaz is the director of the Quilliam Foundation. A film of his trip will be shown on BBC's Newsnight on Tuesday

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Jun 2009 3:07 #
  2. NNL
    member

    lol
    Do you even know what Quilliam foundation does in Britain. lol

    Man i sorry to say this but it needs to be said my Punjabi brethren are most inconsistent people i have known. They are willing to change recant anything they have said for a future good life.

    Maajid Nawaz was an **** when he was in HT and still is.
    Though i m not in favor of HT but seriously the y'all need to know the **** up **** thats going on in few of the Pakistani community members in UK. They have honestly given a new meaning to the phrase
    " Teri Gori **** ko Salam Salam-e-Ishq Salam-e-Ishq"

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Jun 2009 3:36 #
  3. Revivalist
    member

    very pointless article... I dont understand what apart from HT bashing does he want to convay????

    At the time of the Prphet(Saw) their were Mufaniqs who use to propagate against Islam and the followers but what they achieved, NOTHING!!! So Majid Nawaz stop spreading falshood against Islamic using the pretext of Islamism.... If you want to prove your point come up with your aurguments and evideneses based on Quran and sunnah.....

    Regards

    Posted 2 years ago on 21 Jun 2009 6:22 #
  4. kwaleed
    Member

    The “Quilliam Foundation” is nothing more than a British govt. funded entity designed to stifle resistance of Pakistanis to British and American foreign policy in the region:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5549138.ece

    and it fits in with what CIA/State Dept. have been advocating for Pakistan:

    “State Sponsored Sufism” :
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4993

    (I thought in secularism, there was supposed to be NO interference by the state in matters of religion????)

    It is about as “independent” as Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan or Nuri al Maliki in Iraq is from U.S. control.

    Further, the co-director, Mr. “Ed” (I-changed-my-name-because-I-am-ashamed-of-being-a-Muslim) Hussain has:

    1. Gone on record as having supported the Iraq war but not the aftermath or handling of it.
    2. Poured cold water on the idea that western policy in the Muslim world makes terror attacks in Britain and elsewhere more likely,
    3. Wants caps on immigration and thinks too many non-white (Pakistani/Bengali/Somali) people are in the UK
    4. He has no truck with the idea of Islamophobia, which he dismisses as the “squeal of an Islamist leadership pleading special favours”
    5. On issues such as segregation, he is confident it is the fault of multiculturalism.

    source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/21/allmodcons
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/anyquestions_transcripts_20080229.shtml

    these guys are following in the footsteps of other British lackeys (Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, Nehru, etc.) of the past.

    Pakistan needs AN INDEPENDENT way of thinking rather than making themselves slaves to outsiders.

    Kw

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Jul 2009 1:24 #
  5. Revivalist
    member

    Bro kwaleed, very right!!!!

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Jul 2009 7:37 #
  6. Hizbul Tahir is a banned terrorist organization in Pakistan. It is organizations like HT that we are standing where we are today. This menace should be wiped out of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 2:20 #
  7. Wahid Doyum
    Member

    Terrorists and Pakistan go hand and hand.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 3:29 #
  8. hkbajwa
    Member

    Yeah i don't really get why revivalist and kwaleed are so gung ho about denouncing Majid Nawaz

    HT is one of those organizations that thrive on recruiting impressionable and vulnerable young people. Their stated goal may be to establish a global Islamic Caliphate (to which i honestly have no objection), but their tactics are wholly unislamic and immoral.

    They are responsible for the spreading of a whole lot of hate literature, unsubstantiated propoganda and are very quick to encourage violence as a means to resolve conflict.

    It is the classic Islamist organization that so far has achieved nothing other than sporadic violence and giving peaceful muslims a really bad name. Shutting down this organization is much more important to muslims than to anyone else. How can muslims ever win hearts and minds when a violent group like HT positions itself as spokesmen for all muslims. I don't know about you, but HT most certainly does NOT speak for ME.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 5:31 #
  9. Literal meaning of Hizb-ul-Tahreer is a Liberation Front.
    Taking that in view what is that HT wants to liberate. Just being curious!

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 6:10 #
  10. Dear All

    Is the HT bashing is the new Islam bashing.

    About 99% of people of Pakistan has not even heard of HT. I dont understand why the likes of hkbajwa and his cohorts are worried and even scared of HT. Kuch tu hai jis ki parda daari hai ;-)

    As for Majid Nawaz and Edwina Hussain, they are not only HT haters but Islam Haters. What these guys utter on the order of their Masters is touching the borders of apostacy.May Allah swt give them hidaya.

    One thing I would really like to see is the shari'i rational, logical and intellectual countering of HT arguements not the HT bashing. This will give the people the choice and knowledge not to follow HT. So please no bashing but the sharia and intellectual arguments.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 9:27 #
  11. Dear hkbajwa

    you mentioned above
    "Shutting down this organization is much more important to muslims than to anyone"

    What a hypocracy from you. On one hand you cry foul that Qadiani are banned in Pakistan for doing many things and you protest on BANNING them and in a same breath advocating the banning of another group you do not agree.

    I myself never propose a ban on anyone, no matter how differing view they have unless and untill they are proved to be involved in voilent activities and responsible for taking the lives of innocent people.

    The hypocracy is breathtaking and exposes you and likes of you that how much tolerance you have for the people you dont like.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 10:03 #
  12. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ Farigh Jazbati

    You know you are absolutely right. I realize i must sound arrogant and hypocritical and for that i apologise. Thank you for making me aware of this contradiction.

    I find HT to be a distasteful organization because they stand for violence. I do not agree in the use of aggressive violence or censure for any cause. In saying that HT should be shut down i have nevertheless implied that i wish for some sort of aggressive action curtail their activities.

    I was wrong for implying that. HT should be allowed to exist as an organization and express its voice.

    I can only hope they cease to support violence as a means to resolve conflict. That is not how Peace will be achieved and as long as they so fervently stand in the way of the abolition of violence, their efforts to achieve the same goal as you or I will only be counterproductive.

    Since i am human this frustrates and angers me. I thank you for bringing to my awareness an opinion that i have formed as a result of anger and frustration. This is an opinion that would have caused harm to me and the world and thus i must correct it. I am noone to call for the censure of HT. Thank you for correcting me on that.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 11:26 #
  13. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ FJ

    Anyhow the point i was trying to make in the sentence you quoted was that those who consider themselves muslim should realize that the existence of an organization such as HT does them harm. This organization needs to be rejected by all who consider themselves muslim.

    It doesn't matter where HT comes from. The fact that it exists needs to be addressed.

    And i have to admit that shutting them down, banning them or persecuting them is not the correct way to address the problem. It is in fact an exercise in futility, because while people may be eliminated, belief does not. The doctrine that drives HT will carry on, with new leaders, new followers, new names and a new slogan. To address and correct this doctrine requires a leap in the collective conscience where people see HT before them and reject naturally.

    In order to reject them however they must be free to be who they are. And that should be the way to deal with any group belief. I am willing to take the risk of HT being a completely legal organization and be subject to the exact same laws as everyone else. I believe pushing them underground gives them greater strength, and i do not wish them to take advantage of that.

    I say bring them out.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 11:37 #
  14. Dear hkbajwa

    You are welcome. As you have corrected your POV I have no ill feelings.

    I always believe that differt POV is not necessarily the opposing point.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 14:31 #
  15. NNL
    member

    Its very interesting that Lota and Bajwa have decided to do a targeted retaliation by bringing up old topics interesting indeed.

    Ok here is what i fail to understand.

    How is HT really hurting you ? specifically Bajwa would love to know ur views on it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 15:48 #
  16. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ NNL

    Firstly i'm pretty new to this forum and i haven't been a part of previous discussions on these topic. Pardon me if you think it's old news.

    Of course HT hasn't hurt me. I am simply not in agreement with their opinions and tactics.

    that said i still agree that banning and persecuting HT is not the way to take the sting out of their opinions. As long as a group claims the status "underground revolutionary brotherhood" it's going to continue to have a morbid attractiveness to disillusioned and/or angry youth.

    I don't believe it would serve our country or this world if they were given that advantage. SO like i said. Set them free.

    I have faith that the awaam will reject the extremist, revolutionary and militant element of them and proceed to turn HT into a different organization altogether.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 16:07 #
  17. @hkbajwa
    Salam and NNL are members of hizbultahir by their own addmission in posting on different threads. Please correct me if I am wrong.
    @NNL
    This post demonstrates the evil designs of foreign organizations hired by the west to destabilize Pakistan. There are foreign organizations that are sending people to do recruiting in Pakistan. I suppose they do it on the internet also. All Pakistanis should be aware of activities of banned illegal organisations. This thread raises awareness.

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 18:37 #
  18. Dear Lota6177

    As I mentioned above that we should have shari'i, rational, logical and intellectual argument regarding HT or any other organisation's idealogy, thoughts and concepts. Mere bashing will not do anything.
    We should have a mature debate about these issues and if one can not counter the arguement intellectually then they should not resort to banning them. Taking the easy option by using state machinery and brute force apparatus to shut any non voilent organisation shows the intellectual bankcruptcy.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 18:53 #
  19. fj
    HT has been banned in Pakistan due to its terrorist activities. Any organization that uses terrorism as a political tool should be banned immediately to protect lives. This is a voilent organistation and here are some samples you might have missed.
    http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100791931&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20091210
    http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsAug2005/cover2aug2005.htm
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/09/why_newsnights_interview_with_former_ht_member_is.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3639603/I-know-how-these-terrorists-are-inspired.html
    In words of Ex HT member Majid Nawaz:
    "My journey from prison was not an easy one to make. After all, there were many reasons for why I should not leave, and very few for why I should. The one reason that I could not ignore, the one reason that grew deep inside me till it consumed me with guilt was the realisation that I was abusing my faith for a mere political project. After learning through my studies in prison that Islamism was not the religion of Islam, but rather a modern political ideology, I no longer felt guilty simply for criticising a political system inspired by 7th century norms."[7]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz
    http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/the-problem-with-hizb-ut-tahrir/
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/11/investigating_hizb_uttahrir.html

    Posted 1 year ago on 13 Mar 2010 20:18 #
  20. @lota6177
    Not Salam and NNL but another member used to defend HT.(It is quite possible you may be confusing them with him).

    They do not claim to be Aalims although both have extensive knowledge of Islamic Jurisprudence.

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Mar 2010 6:17 #
  21. Dear Lota6177

    Bhai Meray, regarding the links you posted, this is the very things I am objecting to. This is all one sided propaganda, pure unadulterated state sponsored propaganda.

    It is a known fact that any party or organisaion in any country who is anti establishment has to endure the state sponsored propaganda. In Pakistan, PPP and MQM and ANP (in the past) being anti establishment parties are the prime example of this state sponsored propaganda. They were labelled as anti state, anti people, unpatriotic, security risk bla bla bla bla. All the organ of the state machinery were used to malign them. It is a known fact that any party (be it a religious or secular)in pakistan who will be anti establishment and talks about changing the rotten system will be targetted by powers to be and all the state sponsored propaganda will be unleashed to defame them, malign them, ridicule them and "WARN" people about their so called "DANGER" to stability in the soceity.

    I have couple of good friends who work for intelligence agencies and kind of stories they tell sometimes about maligning people and organisations is beyond belief.

    Coming back to the main point, we need to have a logical, rational and intellectual debate backed by shar'a evidence to counter any such organisation. We should have a atmosphere of healthy debate and arguements, counter arguements and then let the people make up their own mind.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 14 Mar 2010 9:54 #
  22. @Farigh Jazbati
    I have couple of good friends who work for intelligence agencies and kind of stories they tell sometimes about maligning people and organizations is beyond belief.

    Agreed. I find it interesting but true!

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 10:46 #
  23. LalBichoo
    Blocked

    NNL,

    Bhai, I'm really surprised to read following comments in your post !

    """" Teri Gori **** ko Salam Salam-e-Ishq Salam-e-Ishq" """

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/ht-quotrevivalistsquot-and-denouncers#post-50313

    semirza,

    Could you please edit NNL's post !

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 10:52 #
  24. Faarigh Jazbati
    Are you denying foreign involvement of organizations like Hizbul Tahir who are working on behest of MI5 and are sending operatives to recruit people in Pakistan? Please check the links I have already provided above. There is more than enough evidence to support the case.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:14 #
  25. Dear Lota6177

    Ar you saying MI5 wants pakistan to become khilafah

    This is the most ridiculous and funny thing I have ever heard or come across. ROFL

    Please think and ponder before you post comments.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:24 #
  26. fj
    this maybe funny for you but the turkish khalifah was working as a british agent in his last days. Can you explain why ht is banned in germany but free to operate in USA and UK?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:26 #
  27. Dear Lota

    I have no idea why HT is banned or not banned in certain countries. I am making the point that to tackle HT there should be a logical, rational and intellectual debate based upon shara'a evidence. Banning any organisation is not the solution. Its like sweeping under the carpet.
    Look what government has achieved by BANNING TTP. What was required was to address TTP's twisted ideology and not just to BAN them.

    Please read this as well

    http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/mar2010-daily/15-03-2010/col14.htm

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:32 #
  28. TTP and Ht are banned in Pakistan due to their terrorist activities. You are making it seem like both of them were book clubs unfairly banned by the governement.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:37 #
  29. Dear Lota

    I have only the following to say to you

    Ham Dua likhtay rahe, woh Dagha parhatay rahe
    Ek Nuqtay ne Mehram se Mujram banaa diya

    Kuch na samjhay khuda kare koi.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:40 #
  30. FJ
    Things are not as simple and harmless as you are making them seem to be. The picture that you are painting of TTP and HT is making me feel like asking for membership form of ht and TTP but the reality is very different. The use violence to achieve political goals should be condemned by every sane person.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:52 #
  31. Dear Lota

    Forgive my ignorance and For my knowledge could you please point out a single case where HT was involved in voilence and they were convicted by the court.

    The case of TTP is clear and no one denies their involvment in henious crimes against humanity. The mention of TTP was to make the point that mere banning does not address the core issue. Whatever information I have read from the newspapers, There is a clear and BIG difference in HT and TTP.

    BTW why the so called "LIBERALS" always resort to banning the opinion/voice/viewpoint which is differnt from Them. What is the difference then between Talibaan and the liberal Fascism.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 17:58 #
  32. Fj what are the views of HT on the founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah? How does HT view the state of Pakistan? Does Ht respect the constitution of Pakistan and the geographical boundaries of Pakistan? Has Ht been working on turning officers of Pakistan army to facilitate an inqilab by abrogating the constitution of Pakistan? Does ht support the terrorist activities of Al Qaeda and TTP?
    Your answers to all the questions above will clear any misconceptions that I may have about this banned organization

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 19:23 #
  33. Dear Lota

    Now we are talking.

    The answers to your question can only be given by someone from HT.

    This is exactly I am saying that lets have a rational, logical and intellectual debate and people ask HT their views on various many things and issues istead of advocating a blanket ban approach. Based upon the arguments let the people decide who has strongest POV. I or you may differ with HT POV but as long as it is non voilent and within political domain we should agree to disagree.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 19:39 #
  34. fj
    I have a psychic feeling that no one is going to answer the questions I posted above. I hope someone ends my psychic career by answering them. It is easy to talk a good game which is not based on ground reality.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2010 19:46 #
  35. Salam
    member

    FJ,

    Interesting, I see that the rational, logic and intellectual debate is missing while people just bashing based on their prejudice-

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Mar 2010 12:15 #
  36. Dear Lota

    As well as HT guys giving their views on your questions, I suppose you should also ask the same questions to the LEGAL parties in Pakistan that what are their views on these issues. I give you a hint.

    what are the views of HT on the founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah? Same question should also be asked to JUI and ANP

    How does HT view the state of Pakistan? Same question should be asked to JUI, ANP and MQM

    Does Ht respect the constitution of Pakistan and the geographical boundaries of Pakistan? Same question should be asked to JI, JUI, and ARMY

    Ht been working on turning officers of Pakistan army to facilitate an inqilab by abrogating the constitution of Pakistan? Same question should also be asked to a select Clique of ARMY Generals and JI and what about the supreme court decision that every successful Inqilab has its own constitution (Nusrat Bhutto case)

    Does ht support the terrorist activities of Al Qaeda and TTP? Same question should be asked to JUI and JI and PTI

    You probably already know the views of some of LEGAL parties/organisations in pakistan and no one gives a **** about their views on your questions so the question is why only one particular organisation is targeted.

    BTW the links you posted do not give a single example where voilent or ather subversive acts are proven by a court.

    From your reaction I failed to understand why you are so scared and terrified of HT.

    Shair ban Shair

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Mar 2010 13:53 #
  37. And Dear Lota; If the answer from any of the parties/organisations (esp ANP, MQM and JUI)I mentined above are not to your liking or NOT according to the STANDARD answer then would you propose a similar ban on these parties and organisations.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Mar 2010 20:39 #
  38. fj
    My psychic feeling was correct and there has been no straight answer from you. Ht position is the same as anp, mqm and jui? What kind of answer is that? Why are you so ashamed to clearly state your position? This is your chance to admit to what you believe in. Try again and this time give an answer to these questions. What are the views of HT on the founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah? How does HT view the state of Pakistan? Does Ht respect the constitution of Pakistan and the geographical boundaries of Pakistan? Has Ht been working on turning officers of Pakistan army to facilitate an inqilab by abrogating the constitution of Pakistan? Does ht support the terrorist activities of Al Qaeda and TTP?
    Please don’t be scared, I encourage you to come out of the closet.

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Mar 2010 22:20 #
  39. Salam
    member

    i think the examples given by FJ are logical, meaning on one hand some parties are allowed to do political activity with similar stance but some other are banned, why?

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Mar 2010 4:26 #
  40. Dear Lota

    You are agian trying to side track the discussion. If I were from HT I would say openly and I dont have to hide anything. I am not the point of discussion. The point of discussion is to have a open, logical, rational and intellectual debate about a organisation called HT and their ideology, concepts etc. The discussion is that we should be mature enough to discuss anything and everything instead of advocating a ban on someone who we do not like or do not agree with.

    This is similar to when you or I object to Taliban banning everyone who does not conform to their version of Islam.

    I hope you UNDERSTAND the main and key point of my point of view.

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 17 Mar 2010 8:28 #
  41. Dear Lota

    Some food for thought for you

    http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100887685&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20100320

    FJ

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Mar 2010 8:55 #
  42. FJ
    Thank you for the article by the Taliban mouth piece comedian orya. How about answers to the questions I asked above?
    Watch this program to see the mental level of Mr Orya.
    http://pkpolitics.com/2010/03/06/column-kaar-6-march-2010/
    You will be amazed.
    Some food for thought for you

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Mar 2010 8:02 #

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