Our official language is English.
Textbooks are in English.
TV channels are migrating towards English (even if they are talking in Urdu, name of that program is written in English).
Education more than 80% is in English.
This forum is in English :)
We are not foolish like China or America or England to have all above in our national language. Why they are hesitant to declare English as a national language? Just do it
scindian
Member
Yes you are right,the current century is for cybertechnology,which is in english therefore english must be given official and national language status in pakistan.
Nowdays traditional Arabs have also realized the importance of english and they are lauching english TV chennels.
Every language has its own purpose but I dont think Pakistan is ready for that cause still much of Pakistan is Uneducated and also Urdu Medium is another thing which is their in Pakistan Rural society so it would require TIME like when Pakistan able to EXPEND its Literacy up to 60% at least then English wont make trouble and it is a good Suggestion cause English is Global Language and it can Open many doors to opportunity and Knowledge for Pakistan around the World...
No, it is not right. Do you know in china the talk in chinese. But still they are far from us in technology. Technolgy is not english. To adopt english as a national language leaving urdu is just like leaving shalwar qamees in favour of pent shirt.
Everywhere in the world national language is the official language.
In india recently a resolution has passed for promotion of Urdu language. We the pakistanis have mind of slaves.
They are not educated and developed because they talk english or wear pent shirt, but the way we are following the way of donkey, wearing mask of lion will never make us a lion.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@LifeH2O: (1) Is this thread the latest joke your trying to pull on us ? or perhaps 'sarcasm' ? or is it a serious question ?
(2) For Pakistan, for people of Pakistan, this! is the 'transition' 'period' i.e., from achieving freedom from western/colonial/imperial powers to going back to our own system.
It is only natural, that you'll see a 'big' 'footprint' of the non-Muslim world within our ranks.
A fact: Most of the 1000+ years of knowledge Muslims collected is in books, written in Arabic, Persian language, that were either 'destroyed' or 'stolen' by Europeans, acting under control of Zionists/Unjust Jews, when they started their colonial/imperial project, spread across some 400 (or perhaps more) years in the past.
(3) Human beings, as a 'collective', as a 'nation' take a lot more time to do things than when they function as an 'individual'
--------------------------------------------------------
@scindian: Spreading propaganda as usual, eh ?
achtung
Member
let us boy cot english. we can do better in our regional languages and urdu.
@HK (1) whatever you think suitable, i tried a serious question though.
I think degradation of Urdu is another example of Western culture effect on us. Taking knowledge is not bad anyway by any means (learning english is not bad at all, this language is the source of information now). But degrading Urdu is the real issue.
I bet in most of the english private schools, and the college students don't even know the complete alphabet. They will be definitely unable to translate an english word to Urdu.
Have you ever listened someone on Indian channel? their documentry? their interview etc.?
When they talk in hindi/urdu it is not a mixture of english. They use a lot less words of english then we do in our daily speech.
English is a medium of communication there and they also speak it well.
It seems that we dont like urdu.
I saw Angelina Julie pictures with earth quake victims. She is wearing Shalwar Qamees and dupatta... wow
Every country has its own cultural identity .
and language is the corner stone of the culture .
national language represents culture .
its the language being understood and used by majority of people of a particular country .
as long as English is concerned .
English is the language of international community .
its the language broadly being understood , and used as a mode of communication , when it comes to two different countries ,with two different national languages .
see what Wikipedia has to say about it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_language
interestingly , first example , it has given to differentiate national language and international language , is the example of Pakistan .
i dont agree with the author of the thread , LifeH20 , in the observation that we are going English .
Urdu has been widely used and understood by masses .
example is Tv channel DAWN News ;
Dawn , started off with only English News channel .
maybe the first English news channel of Pakistan .
but despite of all the respect and regard it holds with the heritage of Dawn newspaper .
it failed to get the viewership and ratings .
so it has to come up with Urdu transmission .
Shimatoree said
"The same group wishes to impose Urdu- (a language of a minority in Pakistan on all the others) that imposed Arabic on us 1300 years ago after the conquest by the Muslim Arabs."
But isn't there a group who wants to impose english on us?
shimatoree
Member
LifeH2O Yes there is a group that wishes to impose English. But let us just try to look at this problem objectively and without bias. Today we live in a world where English is the medium of communication both in science and business, communication etc.The students from Pakistan have a great advantage in the world market for talent because they are fluent in English as compared to the Arabs , Iranians and,Rusians and Chinese students.Most of the Tech literature is in English. Most of the medical and engineering lietrature is in English. Urdu on the other hand though undrestood by quite a few in Pakistan is NOT their mother tongue.So the arguement that we have the great advantage of our mother tongue if we have Urdu as medium of insturction is false. I read and learned the Quran during my childhood in Arabic-( like a Parrot) and today I know next to nothing in Arabic language.Would I have been better if I had learned Arabic instead of English- The answer is an emphatic no since the language that everyone around me spoke was and is Pushto. Yes I can get by in Urdu bot cannot read it or write it. Knowingly - condemning our young people to the linguistical isolation and insulation of Urdu or Arabic would be a crime since we already arew aware of the advantages of being fluent in English. Pakistan is a country of South Asian Muslims. We are not and have never been Arabs_( though we have tried to be). It is high time that we look at what is advantageous for us in this fast shrinking global village.
I have a lot of other arguments to support my point of view but I shall save it for later.
And based on that English is a great advantage.
Let us not blow it.
Salam
member
english is not bad if we are thinking only to provide skilled labor to the west, but if we are thinking to become world leader then we've got to pick one language that connects both religion and technology...
English is a stupid language, though I do love English poetry. How about giving French or Russian or even German a try. Quite fascinating languages, all three.
Also, the most advanced of Muslim nations today, technologically speaking, happens to be Iran. And whatever other failings they may have, they have never betrayed their native language. They advanced even though many of them can't speak English properly. They solved the problem by getting everything translated.
French, Russian? what a BRILLIANT idea MG.
:S
"after all we have got to learn a foreign language why only of decaying colonial powers and why not of rising nations?"
From being a language rooted in colonialism,China?
English has become the language that has given India an edge over countries
where English is a foreign language. India has become a resource pool
of English – a language whose ascendancy remains unquestioned. English
plays an important role in the domains of education, administration,
business and political relations, judiciary, industry, etc. and is therefore
a passport to social mobility, higher education, and better job
opportunities.
People of the world unanimously consider English as the most useful language for cross-boundary communication. Thus, from an ordinary Chinese point of view, English is not the language for us to speak with Americans, the British or any other native speakers. Rather, it is the common language for us to communicate with Japanese, Koreans, Thais, Singaporeans and other Asians and people from developing countries. The global spread of English over the last 40 years is remarkable in the history of the language of English. That English has become an international language means for multinational and multicultural communication.:)
shimatoree
Member
MG-
Knowing Persian a little and having been to Iran and seen the things- please be advised that what the Iranians have done is not translation but
induction of French and other European words into the language and that is how they think they can get by.
They have advanced but their advance has been quite slow and will remain so but I will comment on some of that if the occasion arises.
You have not answered my specific points where English( a foriegn language) has an advantage over Urdu( another foriegn language for most).
As to becoming a great nation- well keep dreaming !
That ain't happening
Salam
member
nota
I read somewhere that all foreign language books are translated in Chinese for Chinese people.
They are getting education in their own language, all devices, gadgets are in Chinese for them.
I also read that in Afghanistan, names of ranks of army is in Pushto.
English is multinational communication language, why is it necessary inside? Modern society here communicate in english while both know urdu, why?
It may be my lesser experience but i have not met any pakistani with any language who was unable to understand urdu better than english
@MG English poetry is stupid to :-P i like smart english quotes :)
shimatoree, did I say anything about a great nation? I'm just dreaming of survival for the moment.
Salam Sahib, I do not believe in India's rising-power status. I do believe in China's arrival as power number one. Now shimatoree, nota keep your shirts on. For the sake of peace, I'll rectify that: eh, I meant the West is number one, China lagging far behind, never to catch up with the giants.
shimatoree
Member
MG-
look . Let us face the facts.
There is horse race.
There are two horses that run while one gets left in the starting gate,then comes out and stumbles and falls, throwing the jockey who is injured and taken to the hospital.
This horse gets up and tries to start runnig but falls again and again due to the reins getting entagled around his legs.
Now the other two horses are long gone and have finished the race.
Do you really think the 3rd poor horse has a chance in thsi race.
The answer is no.
He is finished. Get the message or shall I have to translate .
This is a subtle and abstract message with hidden items!
shirazi
Member
If you know English it's an advantage not just internationally but at national and local levels as well. In old days Persian used to be elite language. People like Ghalib who had grasp on Persian could hang around with elites. If English becomes our national language in decade or two the advantage (one of many) that elite enjoys will be vanished. We will be able to appreciate talent not just communication skills.
I don't know what we get by sticking to Urdu. It's not the language of our fore fathers. It's not the language of our religion. As far as I know it was merely evolved in Army camps when our troops were interacting with some European troops.
To begin with I don't know why MA Jinnah forced this on us and now what emotional attachment we have with this?
I hear you Shirazi, I hear you. You bring out some painful stuff that nobody wants to talk about. This language has severed us from West Pakistan.
shimatoree
Member
How much thought was given in 1947 to the language issue ?
I doubt if any.
How much thought was given to thinking ?
I doubt if any.
How much thought was given to how we were going to start building for the future of Pakistan.
I doubt if Any.
How much thought was given in 1947 to the language issue?
I have always wondered what kind of thought was giver to the language issue. I mean, did they go "Let's go for a language that is spoken the least!" Cruel joke I say and a MAJOR disservice!!!
Ever given an honest thought to what is Urdu in Pakistan and Hindi (sanskritized Urdu) in today's subcontinent?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
The word 'impose' is one of the most 'abused' word in history of mankind.
The irony is, mankind doesn't 'confirm' what they come across. They blindly accept whatever they come across, as the truth. Why should mankind not have consistent losses, then ?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
In the coming era, most of the technologies would be in Chinese. On the internet itself most of the domains, as well as content will be in Chinese.
Western economic boom is coming to an end. Their governments are at an average of 500% debt to their GDP ratios', and this is rising trend. The west is heavily indebted to Zionists/Unjust Jews. Soon, for the people of the west, the period of publicly open, full scale slavery to Zionists/Unjust Jews will begin. They will not be able to budge from this slavery. It will be a period of great torment. So much so that they will call upon Muslims for help. Tomorrow these same people will be telling us to convert everything to Hebrew, since Zionists/Unjust Jews are the 'next ruling state/nation' of the world.
I wonder why people within our ranks consistently want us to 'accept' 'slavery' at the hands of west? Why ?
I wonder why they don't push for our own languages, why they don't push our own culture, our own values. Why ?
Much of the content, the knowledge Muslims collected is in Arabic, in Persian. A good amount of that knowledge has already been translated into Urdu. I wonder why these people want us to just 'give up', to 'throw away' all of that.
右擊桌面上的錢。
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@barackosama: Learning to emulate your new 'masters', eh ? I am ashamed to see you do that. I thought we! were Muslims! who have! 'freedom'.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Urdu, Arabic, Persian is not dominant because local economies of Muslims is in dead state. It is being 'forced' to remain in that state.
As soon as Muslims accept 'justice' from the 'court of law', justice that is as per standards of Islam, Muslims can revive their local economy.
Even in this most dead of states of Muslim UMMAH, the dead state of our collective local economy (i.e., the economy of 56 Muslim nation states. I think I missed 5 of Muslim nation states in that list) stands at $11 trillion. I calculated this statistic by adding up economic numbers present on Wikipedia. Anyone can go there and confirm it.
Even in this 'best' of states of the western economies, the biggest and best noted economy stands at $14 trillion.
This is the time when Muslims are in a state of consistent war. New wars are being started against Muslims every decade or two. This is the time when Muslims are being forced to give up their DEEN, their culture, their values, their ways. This is the time when we are being 'forced' to remain in dead state. This is the time when foreign/western imperialism has 'indirectly' 'imposed' itself on us. This is the time when we are not being allowed to conduct trade independent of illegal influence of western nations.
So, what does that tell us about Muslims, our economy, our values, our culture, our strengths, our power! ?
shirazi
Member
@HarrisKhan
@hariskhan
C'mon. This time it is going to be East, enuf of da West. Let the orient shine. BTW, that was traditional Chinese and it translates to 'right on the mark,' now don't hang me for agreeing wid ya.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@shirazi: People from our past generations, perhaps even current generations have remained under influence of Hindus' for many decades. They or their forefathers, their families have;
(1) lived under rule of Hindus'
(2) lived among Hindus'
when Indian subcontinent was one whole.
It is only natural that there will be 'remnants' of Hindu language, culture, values within our people for some time.
I don't think Urdu is creation of Hindus' though. It was creation of Muslims.
@hariskhan
Living with the Hindus is obvious but when on earth we lived under the rule of Hindus?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Since Colonials came to power in Indian subcontinent, till the time we got Pakistan.
Colonials and Hindus' had a common goal i.e., to bring down, to enslave Muslims. Needless to say, they did it in more ways than one.
No nation has ownership of English now. The topic should be English as a natural language. English is becoming as universal to the human being as the Mathematics.
It is not the language alone, it is the culture, attitudes and what not. Our elite shows off their western dresses, styles and manners all the time.
Ibn-e-Khaldun wrote six centuries ago, something like,
" The defeated nations follow the culture of overpowering nations thinking that it is their culture that made them so successful. They don't realize that it is not the culture but their organization, dedications to their goals and hardwork that gets them the success".
It is yet another proof, not that we need one, that we are on the wrong footing.
Language comes with the culture, agreed. I think we proved in 1947 that we would master their language and education to beat them on their own trough while preserving our distinctiveness on which we never compromise. I think this is the way to go, to turn their stuff onto them so they are left no room to differ, meaning all of it - language, democracy, human rights, freedom and rule of law. So speak French and tell them banning a head scarf is un-French, inhuman, violation of personal rights and the state meddling into individual's personal choice.
Truthlover
Member
The world is divided by Haves and Haves not. ndia and Pakistan are divided by English and non English speaking.
That's the dividing line, determining your position and your social affliation.
I am reading English from 7 years of my study and on internet, but it is still very painful task to read it when a big article or page is in there.
zenith
Member
English needs to be given equal importance. And this non-sensical mentality of defeated nations following other cultures is just ludicrous. When the europeans were exposed to arab literature, they learned arabic to better understand their knowledge. Same is the case with arab thinkers who learned roman and greek literature and translated into arabic. Pakistan should declare English as an official language along with urdu more like India. Some friends on this forum remind me of the crazy mullahs who declared english speaking " kufer " when the British took over. This kept muslims of the subcontinent completely aloof of the corridors of power. jinnah spoke english. Why all this debate now.
Defeated in a sense if East India Company landed as an army…No they landed as peaceful traders, sought permission to trade. Yes trade they did cultivating rebels among one rajawara against the other till the time was ripe to sell their product…army for protection from rivals they themselves cultivated! Ring any bells . Never seen any limy stand ground in a battle!
shimatoree
Member
Those who are opposed to English-
Will they also oppose Arabic which was after all the imperialist language of the days gone by.
The resentment against Arabic was so severe that Mahmood e Ghaznavi asked Firadosi to write the Shahnama in PURE Pahalavi-(Persian).And after he had written 60,000 quratets- he was caught for having used one word of Arabic in his entire compilation-( by Ayaz).As a result he was not given one gold piece for each quartet but a silver piece which he refused.
So let us try to take advantage of what we have and do not throw the baby with the bath water!
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@zenith: How do you come to 'these' conclusions ?
Its your own over-reaction to what others say, your own fear that you are putting on display in open public.
No one said 'ban' English in Pakistan or Muslim lands/Muslim UMMAH.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Mirza sb. adding on 'East India Company' stuff, the British/Colonials under banner of 'East India Company' acquired 'huge' fortresses inside Indian subcontinent, which were 'manned' by their 'soldiers' in that era.
They have planned the same for this era. They are building large fortresses all over Pakistan, at more than 4 locations. If this news is not broadcasted on local mass media, doesn't mean its not happening.
gv
Member
While i agree that we need our own languages to 're-identify' with our collective identity and it should not be an alien language - the ignorance of some people on the history of Urdu and its importance in the sub continent is truly shocking.. ps. @Admin this editing function is fun!!!!
gv
Member
@all First of all lets appreciate that languages are not static but forever evolving.
Hindustani/Rekthi evolved from classical era Prakrit as the lingua franca of northern india and was established as such by the late middle ages (e.g 13 century Amir Khursrau).
This is the same as Persian being the lingua franca of Western and Central asia and Latin being the same to Europe.
During the muslim era and the arab and Perso-Turkic conquests loan words from Arabic and Persian entered this self same Hindustani to evolve into modern day Urdu which was spoken alongside Eastern Persian (Dari) the court and legal language, as the indigenous vernacular by both the Hindu and Muslim elite in Northern India during the late medieval era and was the de facto language of communication for the population of the Northern sub continent.
Also Delhi/UP area being the de facto economic and cultural hub of the sub continent for the past 5 centuries contributed to the language of the region (i.e. urdu/hindustani) being the dominant language in the northern sub continent.
Needless to say the muslim ruling elite being top of the pecking order made sure to bias their speech towards the Perso-Turkic + Arabic of their forbears. Hence the salees 'muslim urdu' of yore which was mimicked by all aspirants to the top of the social order regardless of faith.
Once the British were firmly established as the leading political power in the sub continent (mid1800's) there was a widespread hindu revival led by a right wing conservative contingent within the hindu people of India which sought to 're-sanskritise' hindi and eliminate all 'foreign' influence.
It was at this stage that the language was split into two versions - the 'original' one retaining the 'islamic influence' of the ancien regime and the other being sanksritised to its current durdashan version.
At this same period 'urdu' began to represent the old (muslim)regime and was used as the indian muslims as symbolic of muslim india much as the hindus had begun to use sanskrit as symbolic of hindu india
This is why Jinnah and the Muslim Leauge sought to use Urdu as representative of their faith to unify the muslims of india under the islamic banner realising the need to subdue any ethno-nationalistic urges that the people may have if they (the league) were to achieve their vision of a separate muslim nation state.
If you think about it this was actually quite reactionary/(modern?) of them given the prevalent trend of self determination seeping through the world ala Woodrow Wilson and the reworking of the European state framework post WW1 on an ethno linguistic basis.
ps. sorry for the length of this post
Hello gv, thanks for above. Rewarding reading.
Shimatoree, you said I hadn't answered your direct question. Well, the answer is in my opinion , English should be the second language for us and Urdu most definitely the first. Those who want to be instructed in their mother tongue, should then have Urdu as their second language and English as their third.
scindian
Member
Mr/Ms Beenai Every .........................................................................of the culture
.English is second most language spoken for comunicationtake example of Gilgit Baltistan, Karachi,lahore Peshawar Rawal pindi, or other tourist spots of northern areas,
national language ............................of people of a particular country .
I think seraiki is most spoken and easy laguage to make it National Langausge since it is close to Urdu,Panjabi,Sindhi,hindko and this language is spoken in all four provinces of Pakistan
as long as English is concerned ................................... languages .
Yes you are right
see what Wikipedia ..................about it :
yes wikipedia is right about national language ,1973 constitution describe urdu as national language of Pakistan .
Urdu has been .................................................................by masses .
In India english is widly known language
example is ...................................................... channel of Pakistan .Yes.......................................and ratings
that is roght Do any body know ? Thedaily kawish (a sindhi news paper) has great impact on Masses of Sindh and Balochistan and few parts of seraiki belt.further more many people in sindh and balochistan dont trust urdu media.
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