Discuss

Even though muslims are muslims, there is a clear differentiation between muslims of different cultures, ethnicities and nationalities.

the particular Islamic culture that dominated europe was called the moors. They were as distinct from persian and turkish muslims in their culture as for instance pakistan and indonesia are in their cultures today.

This imagined uniformity between all muslims in years past is no more than a fictitious perception of history.

the reality is that muslims are not "just muslims".. they are whole cultures and societies who have adopted islam as their religion. there's a difference.

in muslim ummah the uniformity in belief, emotions, traditions, value system and even thinking is so much similar that i get amazed!

i have personal experience of extensive travel in muslim world and i find so much coherence- subhanAllah-

nation-state concept injected into muslims ummah is an alien concept, colonials have to use force to sustain the boundaries they drew on muslim lands-

Very well said brother zingaro. We have been divided and remain divided even at arms with eachother.

@zingaro
You are right.The major cause of the decline of Islamic civilization was infighting amongst Muslims they even went to the extent of asking Christians for help to fight each other.Colonialism is a rather recent phenomenon, we just love to blame others for our own shortcomings.
One of the other reasons for decline was that Arabs got lazy they got used to fancy baths and other luxuries of the life.They did not want to bear the hardships of the battle field.They wanted the berbers to go fight and maintain their emipire.
Even today the Arabs hire slave labour to live a comfortable life.

You mean "poor" Arabs.Once they get rich they all act the same way the christians, muslims, arabs. jews, hindus or chinese human nature is the same.Jews forgot holocaust when they got their own state.

Islam Zindabad!
Long Live sunnis, shias,wahabis, bralevies, deobandis, ahamadies,bahais, quranists i could go on....

The history of the Moors in southwestern Europe is a story no different than the dwindling Moghul empire of India. Frankly they were fooling around: fighting with each other, had more cordial relations with Xtian counts/nights; and spent lavishly on art/culture. But put no effort to establish an Islamic state. I'm more mesmerized by the Battle of Vienna when Ottomon Sulaiman the Magnificent attacked western Europe. Had he had not lost, the blow would have gone all the way up to Ireland in coming decades.

NNL
member
dont you usually do that ?

going on and on and on !!

Wow complaining about me going on.Then you go on calling another member a nutjob and ranting about nuclear eneregy that has nothing to do with the thread.
Actually it is the very mulla mentality preaching contentment that is keeping us backwards.

The message i got from the documentary is TOLERANCE as hallmark of Islamic civilization during their prime.
Any thoughts on the subject will be appreciated.

I find the level of ignorance about European history astounding in this thread. No one has absolutely a clue about why the Europeans were the ones who rose up and colonize the world.

What is coal? How is it formed in lakes when dead trees decompose in water? What nations used their natural bronze deposits and coal to successfully industrialize them? Do Coal mines have water in them and which nations invented the steam water pump to pump water out of the coal mines? This same water pump later becomes a steam engine in front of a train. Which small nation states were at war with each other for hundreds of years and the deciding factor between them was who had better technology and a stronger navy? The skills they gained during war with each other were used on the armies of rest of the world and how come they did not have an answer to the armament, technology and tactics of these nations? Was tipu Sultan aligned with the French who were losers of war in Europe to a mightier British navy who had ships that had bronze hulls at the time which made them faster to move even in low wind? Even if there was no Mir jaffir and Mir saddiq would tipu sultan still would have lost eventually to a more technologically advanced British army? How many naval ships did the British army have and what was the total number of sailors in the British army at the time? Did any country that was about to be colonized had a comparable force to defend itself? Did any country that was colonized have the technology to match the European nations?

The Renaissance (rebirth) was a cultural movement that spanned roughly the 14th to the 17th century, beginning in Florence in the Late Middle Ages and later spreading to the rest of Europe. The term is also used more loosely to refer to the historic era, but since the changes of the Renaissance were not uniform across Europe, this is a general use of the term. As a cultural movement, it encompassed a resurgence of learning based on classical sources, the development of linear perspective in painting, and gradual but widespread educational reform.
Britain, France, Spain, Holland, Portugal were all colonist powers that had economies that depended on trade. They were constantly at war with each other competing for resources. Britain and France were at war with each for almost 200 years with each side gaining or losing advantage and than making adaptations with British coming out as victor in the end. The armies and navy’s developed due to these countries using their natural resources effectively through developing technologies and than using that technology to gain advantage. In the end it was the British who had the most advanced technology. Their navy was the most advanced, strongest and well financed. The British were the ones who developed the natural carbon and copper deposits and the technology they used to develop those resources helped them make better navy ships and armaments that helped them conquer the world.
tell us what your information says on comparison of defense technology that tipu sultan had and british had? how come tipu was able to humiliate british forces earlier? why cowardly british preferred not to fight in the battlefield against tipu's forces? why they relied on traitors to back stab their opponents?
Tipu Sultan was a Muslim ruler of Mysore where majority of his subjects were Hindu. Keep that in mind when you try to understand what people composed his army. Mysore was a key French ally and his army was trained by the French. America was a british colony in 1787 that the French liberated and that caused hostilities between the French and british all over the world where they attacked each other colonies. Britain embarked on a plan to drive the French from India, capturing Pondicherry and other French outposts in 1778. They then captured the French controlled port at Mahé on the Malabar coast in 1779. Mahé was of great strategic importance to Haider, who received French supplied arms and munitions through the port, and Haider had not only explicitly told the British it was under his protection, he had also provided troops for its defense. Haider set about forming a confederacy against the British, which, in addition to the French, included the Marathas and the Nizam of Hyderabad. First war In July 1779 Haider invaded Karnataka with an army of 80,000, mostly cavalry. He descended through the passes of the Ghats amid burning villages, before laying siege to British forts in northern Arcot. The British responded by sending a force of 5,000 to lift the sieges. From his camp at Arcot Haider sent part of his army under the command of his eldest son, Tipu Sultan, to intercept a British force from Guntur sent to reinforce Colonel Hector Munro's army 145 miles (233 km) to the north at Madras. On the morning of 10 September 1780, the British force from Guntur under the command of Colonel William Baille came under heavy fire from Tipu's guns near Pollilur. Baille formed his force into a long square formation and began to move slowly forward. However, Haider's cavalry broke through the formation's front, inflicting many casualties and forcing Baille to surrender. Out of the British force of 3,820 men, 336 were killed. The defeat was considered to be the East India Company's most crushing loss in India at that time. Haider Ali renewed the siege at arcot, which he captured on 3 November. This decision gave the British time to shore up their defenses in the south. Tipu also defeated Colonel Braithwaite at Annagudi near Tanjore on 18 Feb 1782. This army consisted of 100 Europeans, 300 cavalry, 1400 sepoys and 10 field pieces. Tipu seized all the guns and took the entire detachment as prisoners. In December 1781 Tipu had successfully seized Chittur from British hands. These operations gave Tipu valuable military experience that became more important after Haider died in December 1782. Warren Hastings sent from Bengal Sir Eyre Coote, who, though repulsed at Chidambaram, defeated Haider three times in succession in the battles of Porto Novo, Pollilur and Sholinghur, while Tipu was forced to raise the siege of Wandiwash, and Vellore was provisioned. Tipu defeated Brathwaite on the banks of the Coleroon in February 1782. The arrival of Lord Macartney as governor of Madras in the summer of 1781 included news of war with the Dutch Republic. Macartney ordered the seizure of the Dutch outposts in India, and the British captured the main Dutch outpost at Negapatam after three weeks of siege in November 1781 against defenses that included 2,000 of Haider's men. This forced Haider Ali to realize that he could never completely defeat a power that had command of the sea, since British naval support contributed to the victory. Haider had sent his son Tipu to the west coast to seek the assistance of the French fleet when he suddenly died in December 1782 at Chittur. Tipu quickly returned and took over the war effort. The British captured Coimbatore in 1783, but neither they nor Mysore were able to obtain a clear overall victory. The war was ended on 11 March 1784 with the signing of the Treaty of Mangalore, at which both sides agreed to restore the others' lands to the status quo ante bellum. These first two wars resulted as victory for Mysore. Most Muslims have absolutely no idea about the third war which was started by Tipu Sultan, who invaded the nearby state of Travancore in 1789, which was a British ally. The resultant war lasted three years and resulted in a resounding defeat for Mysore. France, embroiled in the French Revolution and thwarted by British Naval power, was unable to provide as much assistance as Tipu had expected. The French navy at this time was decimated by the British forces in Europe and the war spending and defeats resulted in the French revolution in europre. The war resulted in a sharp curtailment of Mysore's borders. The districts of Malabar, Salem, Bellary and Anantapur were ceded to Madras Presidency. The war ended after the 1792 siege of Seringapatam and the signing of the Treaty of Seringapatnam according to which Tipu had to surrender half of his kingdom to the British company and send his two sons to them as the hostages of war. The lion of Mysore had to hand over his two cubs to the British since he did not have a navy or naval support by the French. Napoleon's landing in Egypt in 1798 was intended to threaten India, and Kingdom of Mysore was a key to that next step and as the ruler of Mysore, Tipu Sultan, was a staunch ally of France. Although Napoleon’s ambitions were crushed by the british at the Battle of the Nile, three armies - one from Bombay, and two British marched into Mysore in 1799 and besieged the capital, Srirangapatnam, after some engagements with the Tipu's armies. On 8 March, a forward force managed to hold off an advance by Tipu at the Battle of Seedaseer. On 4 May, the armies broke through the defending walls and Tipu Sultan, rushing to the breach, was shot and killed. Tipu was betrayed in this war by one of his commanders, Mir Sadiq, a traitor who was bought by the British. He sent the army to collect wages at the height of the battle thus giving the British a chance to enter through the hole made through bombardment of the wall. Tipu was a brilliant general but Europe was more advanced. Tipu was an ally of France and fighting the most developed nation in the world at the time. The british had better technology and that is the reason why Tipu died due to gunshots and not by falling to a sword.
pakistan has super advanced nuclear missiles, but is one of the biggest beggar country in the world -slave nation-
Possessing North Korean made missiles and an atomic bomb made by stolen plans from Holland and acquiring parts through stolen suppliers list does not make a country super advance in technology.
it is not about super advanced technologies my dear, it is more about ideological strength/revival-
Try to study European history, your comprehension of European rebirth is not even elementary at best and that is me being polite.

bahie tum naie kiss tarah education lanie haie tum tareeqa chooz karo master jiee education jarie rukhain gain. Pranay kaie mockaay/tareeqay bohat hain koie aikh tu chooz karlou knowledge kaie bagair behaas karnay kaa koie faida nahie. Koie baat samaj maie aiye?

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@azzmat: Please paste concise, short, relevant portions. Put up a link for the rest, as I do, in most of my posts.

@Beenai: When you don't have;

(a) honesty
(b) impartial, across the board, FAST, non-discriminatory JUSTICE that obeys Islam
(c) bravery
(d) self reliance, self sufficiency

within our borders, what do you expect to see ?