http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ PKPolitics Discuss Forum en Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:32:57 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/%d8%ac%d9%86%d8%b1%d9%84-%d9%85%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%81-%da%a9%d9%88-%d8%a8%d8%ba%d8%a7%d9%88%d8%aa-%da%a9%d8%a7-%d8%b3%d8%a7%d9%85%d9%86%d8%a7#post-306358 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:14:03 +0000 bsobaid 306358@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>yeh chornay walay tou phirr bhi shareef log hein.</p> <p>asal kareegarr tou woh hein jo abhi takk saath lagay hein aur achi tarah se chona laga kay chorein g ay </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/%d8%ac%d9%86%d8%b1%d9%84-%d9%85%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%81-%da%a9%d9%88-%d8%a8%d8%ba%d8%a7%d9%88%d8%aa-%da%a9%d8%a7-%d8%b3%d8%a7%d9%85%d9%86%d8%a7#post-306353 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:05:27 +0000 Haroon-ur-Rashid 306353@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/02/120208_mush_party_disintegrate_ra.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/02/120208_mush_party_disintegrate_ra.shtml</a></p> <p>hasraat humain unn gunchoon pay hay joo bin khilay murjha gayee </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-132265 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:09:59 +0000 Patriot 132265@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Agreed fully *RhyMe*<br /> Mush should come to Pakistan to face his fate. Staying abroad and issuing statements is not going to help lessen feeling what Pakistanis have against him. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-132261 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:00:30 +0000 RhyMe 132261@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>@Patriot</p> <p>I know what &quot;Bughties&quot; are and what their past was but i just wanna see Mushy killed by anyone now whether the killer is Bughti or whoever...doesn&#39;t matter for me! </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-132260 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:55:10 +0000 Patriot 132260@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Bughtis as puppets been played for a long time by the very establishment they confront..thanks to mush.<br /> What have they done for Bhutto who bombed them and they took refuge in mountains. inspite of this Baluch still say aloud Jiey bhutto. What a shame.<br /> No Bughtis lack *****. It is just a show off. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-132250 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:19:21 +0000 RhyMe 132250@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>@aristotle</p> <p>if thats an authentic news then i will be looking forward to Mushy&#39;s return and i pray that May he return back soon so that we can see him killed by talal bugti...yeyy! </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-132110 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:15:14 +0000 aristotle 132110@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>talal akbar bugti said today:</p> <p>Agar Mushraff wapas aya tu us ko qatal kardey gay<br /> Akbar Bugti kay qatal ka badla ley gay </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131157 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:24:45 +0000 choosy 131157@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Mush ki awam ki adalat mein roo numai aur phanse honi chahiye ,agar Pakistan aana hay tou issi sharat pe kay wohh humaray mulk ko beechany aur dobonay ka hisab kitab day ga . </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131154 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:04:23 +0000 aristotle 131154@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>army wants to make over his face</p> <p>they pulled out Mushi darling and never ever allows him to come back</p> <p>any other general can be another dictator and rule this country but not Mushi</p> <p>zardari ka come back isi ley tha k awam in ko eik dafa aur bhugat ley<br /> aur ye khud apnay mantaqi anjaam ko puhanch jay</p> <p>army realised his mistake </p> <p>excile of these politicians was a mistake that provided them a chance to become a hero/heroin</p> <p>so now policy is </p> <p>let them on thier way<br /> they r going towards sucide </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131144 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:49:24 +0000 Mirza Ghalib 131144@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Inshallah! But look at our comeback kid, if I may put it so vulgarly, Zardari? Pakistan is indeed a land of miracles. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131137 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:42:43 +0000 aristotle 131137@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Chutti nahi hay mun se ye kafir lagee hoyee</p> <p>tu bhayeo baat ye hay k Badshahat ki lat in ko chain nahi lene de rahi </p> <p>political background hay nahi... kahi ka rora kahi ka pathar jama kar k political party bana ney ka koi faida nahi</p> <p>army never allow him to come back</p> <p>Mushraff is removed page from the history book </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131126 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:01:28 +0000 Mirza Ghalib 131126@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Why Musharraf will not return to Pakistan </p> <p>Wednesday, March 17, 2010<br /> By Tariq Butt</p> <p>ISLAMABAD: Lack of any political support, even from his beneficiaries, existence of grave threats to his life, three registered criminal cases and at least five petitions filed in superior and subordinate courts, seeking his trial on different charges including high treason, are the major impediments in former dictator General Pervez Musharraf’s return to Pakistan in near future, his former political colleagues say.</p> <p>His public owning of a political party, still in an embryonic stage, which his loyalist Barrister Mohammad Ali Saif is trying to get registered with the Election Commission (EC) is just to keep himself relevant in domestic politics and attract leaders from other political parties especially the Pakistan Muslim League-Quaid (PML-Q) and its like-minded group, signalling them that he would come back one day.</p> <p>Constitutional experts say while taking up the application for registration of the new party, the EC will take note of the stinging remarks of the Supreme Court contained in its July 31, 2009 judgment against Musharraf for violating the constitution through his November 3, 2007 actions. The apex court had stopped short of recommending trial of the former president for high treason.</p> <p>“I don’t think any politician worth the name will join the new party. But some of those who are neither here nor there in the political field may choose to align themselves with it just to be in the limelight,” PML-Q President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain told The News when asked to comment on Saif’s venture launched at the behest of Musharraf. But he was sure that Musharraf would not return because the political environment in Pakistan was not at all conducive to his presence here. </p> <p>If you wish to read more:</p> <p><a href="http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=229541" rel="nofollow">http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=229541</a> </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131115 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:28:39 +0000 Mirza Ghalib 131115@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>I doubt anyone can take ex-President Musharraf seriously anymore. Except, perhaps, his Western friends. As far as I can make out, the man did two good things for Pakistan. And two alone: He inadvertently freed the media from its chains and he had Quaid-e-Azam&#39;s mazar renovated. </p> <p>I wonder at the same time whether the present government will manage to equal even these modest achievements. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131078 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:48:15 +0000 S.E.Mirza 131078@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Media is compelled to broadcast his sayings. But media should also take a stand against him and broadcast in parallel blunders he comitted and yet again he is propagating his stupidity from abroad. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131072 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:34:57 +0000 M.AKRAM KHAN NIAZI 131072@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Now this undergraduate Dictator making statement that US should not give up its occupation of Afghanistan, while it is basic policy principle of Constitution of Pakistan to support liberation and freedom movements of the world against illegal occupations, this ill informed Dictator is not having any knowledge of constitution and law of land even after ruling the country for a decade. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/musharaf-a-chronically-failed-dictator-1#post-131067 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 04:29:48 +0000 M.AKRAM KHAN NIAZI 131067@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Musharaf a Chronically Failed Dictator.<br /> KARGIL WAR.<br /> Even before becoming the dictator, just for lust of his personnel fame, he was responsible for the adventure of Kargil war, which was having following draw backs.<br /> • As both India and Pakistan were nuclear armed at the time of Kargil war, it was simply foolish idea for staging such an adventure.<br /> • In case of extension of Kargil war, even the survival of both India and Pakistan were at stake, because in nuclear war no one will be victorious.<br /> • Kargil war has given the message to world as Pakistan was interested in the land of Kargil and not in the liberation of Kashmiri peoples.<br /> • It was told to the world as Mujahideen are acting in Kargil while infact they were the personnel of Pakistan army, and in fact it was great betrayal with those soldiers who were officially sent by their Generals in Kargil.<br /> • As a General Pervez Musharaf failed to take the help of Air force, which also indicates that how much capable General was he.<br /> • In Kargil Pakistan army personnel who were denied even by their Generals as their soldiers, were fighting against two forces of India i.e. Indian army and Indian Air force, it was a simple analysis that it will be impossible for one force to win a war against two forces. Which clearly indicates, that General Musharaf was not well aware of the basics of warfare?<br /> • Pervez Musharaf was solely responsible for the deaths and injuries to soldiers in this conflict and damage and malignment of the nation due to his foolish adventure just for his personnel fame.</p> <p>Musharaf Dictatorship.<br /> After Kargil expecting that he could be court martialled for his misdeed, Therefore by violating the best interest of the nation when enemies of Pakistan were waiting for opportunities to overthrow Taliban rule in Afghanistan, and to annihilate Kashmir libration movement and to surgically remove nuclear arms of Pakistan, by having no care of the above mentioned interests of the nation ,this dictator staged the coup against a Prime Minister who was having two third majority in the parliament, at that time only a civilian government was in best position to solve all above challenges but foolish dictators were having no care of interests of the nation.<br /> Kashmir;<br /> Due to Dictator Ship in Pakistan, liberation movement in Kashmir was seriously damaged; more dust was poured on that weakening movement by foolish suggestions of this dictator. This is the reason that even after giving so much sacrifices, still Kashmiries are waiting for freedom.<br /> Damage to Integrity of Pakistan:<br /> As the survival of any nation depends on the basic ideology of that nation, as Pakistan was created on the name of Islam and for the welfare of Muslim populations of Different areas, but this dictator was having no respect for the traditional, religious. Democratic<br /> and justice values of society, he was not in line with the mentality and thinking of the nation, nation was thinking in one direction and he was having mind of opposite direction, which caused serious damage to unity and integrity of Pakistani nation.</p> <p>War against Afghanistan:<br /> After 9/11 When he was waiting for help of USA for strengthening his dictatorship, he helped those enemies of Pakistan who were having desire to overthrow Islamic Government of Afghanistan, while in fact that was a golden opportunity for convincing to USA and world that solution to the problem of extremism in Afghanistan should be left to both governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and at other hand it was a convenient opportunity for creating a union between Pakistan and Afghanistan for countering terrorism for the purpose of avoiding the war in the region. but due to his dictatorship these goals were not possible, specially when India the main enemy of Muslim unity in South Asia pressurized Pakistan, by giving unnatural offer of Air bases in India to USA for aggression against Afghanistan while in fact by this offer it was not possible for USA to attack Afghanistan, by this offer, India just aim was to force Pakistan to become an ally of USA against Afghanistan, so that a hatred may be created between Pakistan and Afghanistan, This foolish General was unable to comprehend this policy of India, due to which so much civilian atrocities are going on in this region even today and this region has become the most destabilized region of the world.<br /> War against Afghanistan was opposed by civilian, military intellectuals, Corps Commanders and people of Pakistan, but dictator was having no care about that. and was interested in his personnel interest<br /> War against Afghanistan has caused a huge destruction in Afghanistan and large number of Pakistani civilians and military personnel’s have been killed.<br /> Destruction of Pakistan.<br /> War against a neighbor Muslim country, has seriously damaged Pakistan Islamic Ideology, and it is simple that without adherence to ideology, no country in the world can survive, this is the reason that now Pakistan is facing serious problem in each and every sphere of life, Institutions of Government and Military, Parliament and Judiciary are now facing serious problems as all these pillars of state have been seriously damaged by dictatorial policies.<br /> Damage to Army:<br /> Due to operations against its own population, Pakistan Army has lost all support of people, this is the reason that due to policies of this dictator, daily so many soldiers and Police personnel’s are loosing their lives, Instead of protecting and helping to each other, Army and people of Pakistan are cutting throats of each other, Due to operation in FATA, Balouchistan, and operation of Lal Mosque, serious damage to image of army has occurred. This dictator did not know that only relation and link between different areas and sections of people of Pakistan is that of Islam, All energy and motivation of Pakistani nation comes from Islam, without that even survival of Pakistan is simply impossible, but this dictator was having no care of that, This is the reason that army and security forces have lost all motivation, and anti social elements are committing freely their crimes.<br /> Damage to Judicial system:<br /> This under graduate General has caused serious damage to Judicial system of Pakistan, He was not knowing that in history when a dictator throw away any judge on street due to fair practices of justice then that Judge becomes the greatest judge of history, In Karachi on 12-05-2007,so many civilians were killed just to damage and abuse the<br /> Judicial system of Pakistan.</p> <p>Damage to Parliament:<br /> This dictator for the lust of power in 1999 removed a prime minister who was having Two Third majority in Parliament and a fake referendum was held to validate his dictatorship in which he showed that he was having support of 98 % of people, while in fact in history even in a single constituency of Pakistan it is simply not possible for any candidate to win so much support. He re-elected himself as a president for next five years, being a government employee wearing Military Uniform, while as per Pakistan constitution it is not allowed to compete elections being in job of Government, moreover from a parliament which already has elected him president once, and was going to complete its life just in next few months.</p> <p>Conclusion: From all above analysis it is clear that running of the country should be done by those who are specially trained for that purpose otherwise Military Generals, who are trained just to kill or destroy the enemy, when they come to the power they do the same thing with their nation and they are very fond of wars and very interested in show of power with guns, such type of people may be very dangerous for the nation, army and world at large. It is also the responsibility of Army as an institution to clarify that why so much conveniently it becomes obedient to such rogue dictators.</p> <p>Written By M.Akram Khan.<br /> Karachi,Pakistan<br /> E.Mail :akrumniazi@hotmail.com </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/britain-lobbies-pakistan-to-spare-pervez-musharraf-treason-charge#post-98583 Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:29:27 +0000 hariskhan 98583@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,</p> <p>UNACCEPTABLE!!!</p> <p>I reject! Britian&#39;s interference in Pakistan&#39;s politics and judicial matters.</p> <p>I am outraged by Britian&#39;s interference.</p> <p>We need to give out exemplary punishments to traitors like Musharraf in order to set a standard for this nation and to send the signal to rest of the world -&gt; traitors of Pakistan, of Muslims will NOT! be spared, will NOT! be dealt with lightly. They will be dealt with iron! hands/fist!</p> <p>Those who ravage the lives of millions of innocent Muslims of Pakistan will NOT! be spared. Those who murdered innocent Muslims of Pakistan to appease US will NOT! be spared.</p> <p>Musharraf MUST! be charged, convicted, sentenced to death! as traitor of Pakistan, and then HANGED!!! IN OPEN!! PUBLIC!!</p> <p>Otherwise, we will be telling this nation and the rest of the world, that Pakistan is land of oppertunity for traitors, mass murderers, plunders of state resources, assets, those who OPENLY break Pakistan&#39;s constitution multiples times for their own personal benefit </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/britain-lobbies-pakistan-to-spare-pervez-musharraf-treason-charge#post-98582 Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:19:20 +0000 iamsowise 98582@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>The party of Pakistan&#39;s opposition leader Nawaz Sharif has accused Britain and the US of negotiating secret guarantees to spare Pervez Musharraf from treason charges. </p> <p>Sir Mark Lyall Grant, political director of the Foreign Office and a former High Commissioner in Islamabad, was reported to have visited the former premier Nawaz Sharif and urged him not to press for Mr Musharraf to be extradited to Pakistan to face trial over his imposition of emergency rule in November 2007. </p> <p>Sir Mark played a key a role in the reconciliation process which allowed the late Benazir Bhutto and her husband, President Asif Zardari, to return to the country with the threat of corruption charges lifted. </p> <p>British sources denied Sir Mark had intervened on behalf of Mr Musharraf, who now lives in London, but stressed the need to avoid any &quot;distraction&quot; from creating regional stability. </p> <p>Despite Britain&#39;s intervention, Mr Sharif appears determined to bring Mr Musharraf back from the UK, where he is staying under Pakistani government protection, to face a trial for treason under Article 6 of its constitution. If convicted he would face the death penalty. </p> <p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/6017290/Britain-lobbies-Pakistan-to-spare-Pervez-Musharraf-treason-charge.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/6017290/Britain-lobbies-Pakistan-to-spare-Pervez-Musharraf-treason-charge.html</a></p> <p>Why double standard??? Britain always raise loud voice against dictator Mogabe rule but on the other side they are supporting dictator Musharaf.<br /> and<br /> Is Musharaf staying in Britian under Pakistani govt protection? </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-57470 Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:19:31 +0000 raheb 57470@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Do we realy need to discuss and pinpoints things of a perticular organization of a country? Every organization in a country represent what is going on in a country, and we can not isolate things to search out a escapegoat. That is what we use to see in this forum, that we spill hell of time to find out a 'real culprit' who is responsible for all this misery we see around. In fact EVERYONE of us bear responsibility of what is happening in out country. Let me exaplain it in a example:<br /> Go around whole country and ask one simple question to people, no matter urban or rural areas, educated or non-educated. ASK, Is it OK to violate RED TRAFFIC light at a cross? (just is it ok not to stop at red traffiv singnel?)</p> <p>I am sure the result will be 100%.. that YES, one should STOP at Red traffic light.<br /> Now question is if 100% of people of a society agree that a simple traffic regulation should be followed, then WHO IS DOING IT?</p> <p>Find out from that example if it fair to put all own failures in account of a one organization, which is backbone of country.</p> <p>raheb </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-57314 Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:56:52 +0000 S.E.Mirza 57314@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Okay Raheb<br /> So lets discuss good things about Pakistan Army. From where do we start. I think Ayub Khan is okay as he has done many good things, and I am witness to that era. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-57311 Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:05:47 +0000 raheb 57311@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Semirza and others! topic about army been discussed many times and whenever discussed some irresponsible people put it in a generalized form- obviously they have bad intention behind it. Army is a organization/department like others organizations. We have BAD people everywhere and they should be disclosed and criticized BUT I do not get such impression when we often discuss army. WHY NOT we discuss their positive sides and make other organizations like them? Why not other organizations of country take army as examplary and do effort to adapt those qualities army have?<br /> What we often see here is Jelousy and pathalogical emotions which are very harmful for the country.<br /> I am NOT saying that there are NO bad elements in army. I am not sure they are much more than country's other organizations, BUT we get often very distorted picture from some on this forum, and that is NOT CLEVER.<br /> What we need here is to discuss HOW can we get other organizations and departments to come up to the level of army, rather than to Drag that so- well functioned organization to other corrupted and low level.</p> <p>raheb </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-57117 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:42:45 +0000 S.E.Mirza 57117@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>@Raheb<br /> I agree with you on 'Ayub Khan's years were golden years'. No body is spreading hate and rumors. Discuss with a cool mind. Are you saying that there is no corruption in the army, or do you mean that comparing; the civil administration is more corrupt than the army. I may agree on the later. Read my post where I have clearly highlited 'generalization' and the harm it may cause........ </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-57114 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:28:35 +0000 raheb 57114@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>It is sooooo ridiculous to see such generalized comments on army, and none of you a single clu that what demage you are doing?<br /> PUT in front PROVES what you are talking about.<br /> Role of army is what Red blood corpsuls have in a humen body.<br /> They RBC attck on germs, bacterias or virus from outside. Unfortunately, we have such defects already in blood. so these BC need to fight within the body and all which try to penetrate from outside. Weaken BC (army) mean sickness-illness and danger for body.<br /> Go through statistics, Pakistan had two most stable economic eras. of Ayub Khan and of Parvaiz M. Ayub Khan's years were Golden years of Pak. history.<br /> Your brain wahed idealism of democracy is Humanity's BIGGEST bluff and fraud. Time &amp; again you are waiting for a Massiha from corrupt political elite and time &amp; again you became disappointed. Flopps of political elits put in the account of army.<br /> Around the world you have examples that HOW honest dictators contributed in the developments of their countries and put it on RIGHT track.</p> <p>Corruption in army..... put forward some statistics tht it is higher than any other organization of Pakistan. You will definitely disappointed that it will be quite less than other organizations and of political elite. Owneships of houses or buildings..... put some clue in front of this forum that more than few percent in army have such ownership.<br /> If you DO NOT have any prove then WHY to open BIG mouth and spread HATE and rumors againt country's red blood corpsuls? WHAT WIN you have here? Are you aware of concequencies?</p> <p>raheb </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56978 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:19:59 +0000 S.E.Mirza 56978@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Yes, this is what fouji foundation has grown into. A formidable force armed with finance and power. I would like to reflect upon the 'sugar mill scandal', one of the fundamental reasons and cause for the resignation of Ayub Khan. I am talking about the sugar mill associated with 'Gohar Ayub' as two thing were considered 'taboo' among army circles:<br /> 1-discussing politics<br /> 2-developing property/assets</p> <p>They were kept secluded, living in army residences/army quarters, never easy going among civil population. A different mind set like 'you bloody civilian', was and is very often heard of.</p> <p>The only advantage a military person (File or Rank) had was as 'retirement benefit', a piece of agricultural land (not farmed yet)in some far of place like in Sindh.</p> <p>But now, army top knobs rank among 'multi-millionaires! </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56974 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:12:14 +0000 msohail83 56974@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Beenai,</p> <p>Lower rank officers and Jawans are the greatest ppl in the military and very down to earth. I had a conversation with some at the railway station during musharraf's last troubled years. They were extremely unhappy with the things Musharraf was doing but were helpless! </p> <p>So, we can't blame them all! </p> <p>As for corruption, that is a real problem! Now, I know they get their plots in the developed area and most of them just turn them around for cash. One of my friends, an MCJ graduate, went to US for higher studies, which his father financed by selling those plots. His parents still have a modest lifestyle. On the other hands, one of my uncles retired from the military as a colonel and he's filthy RICH!! </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56972 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:01:52 +0000 Beenai 56972@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>u know..i am from karachi.<br /> and when you roam around in Karachi .<br /> on shahrah e faisal ,u find every second building has been owned by military (mostly navy personnel as Karachi is the navy headquarters)<br /> in the whole Karachi ,u find ASKARI BANK,ASKARI APARTMENTS,ARMY WELFARE TRUST BUILDINGS ...etc<br /> every second or third building or a plot is a property of armed forces .one way or the other.<br /> so if a common citizen,like me,look at them and feels like this army is eating us up ....<br /> its quite natural.<br /> and army itself should do something to re create its image. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56969 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:30:20 +0000 Beenai 56969@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>@semirza,<br /> that's what i was saying and meant by saying .<br /> that heads of armed forces are so much into money making that we just cant ignore the fact and sometimes do think negative about the whole institution ,including a soldier ,who is ,no doubt ,defending our boundary lines by putting his own life at stake. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56968 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:29:30 +0000 msohail83 56968@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>I come from Jhelum. Been around some military folks. </p> <p>That's altogether a diff breeding in Pakistan. Their girls are craaaaazy (I mean it)!!!! huh! They don't mingle with civilians and they think they are superior just cuz they live in the cantt area and can get rides on military vehicles. ARROGANCE SHOWS! lol </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56964 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:59:56 +0000 S.E.Mirza 56964@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Thanks beenai,<br /> Agreed to your comments. 60 years of my age, is enough for ‘comparative study of events ‘ from the times of Ayyub Khan till today (although I have vague memories of Mirza Ghulam Mohammed’s time before Ayub Khan).</p> <p>At times my comments may appear vague, not in sync but than facts remain facts however bitter they may seem. Let’s discuss and relate a fact you have correctly highlighted with another that remains a reality as long as Pakistan lives:</p> <p>‘so we tend to dislike the institution that is getting the bigger chunk of our national income.’</p> <p>This gives us an impression that ‘army gets a major chunk of our budget’ and that’s very true. Lets relate it to the 1400 km long eastern border; and to maintain that border we are ‘indirectly forced to keep’ a huge army, regardless of our joint wishes not to. The total length of our border with the presence of adversaries, one on the east is India and its intentions of expansionism, the other on the west (this one since Daud’s time has never been our friend).</p> <p>On the other hand we should not miss out another reality ‘the Fouji Foundation’, which has grown into a titan of commerce. The fruits of this industry are enjoyed wholly by the army top brass (including all the military aid to Pakistan).</p> <p>‘We tend to dislike the institution’-true, but the latent facts about the institution should also be mentioned as well. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56956 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:53:02 +0000 Sahnaz 56956@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>how much they do earn?? one of my far relative is in army n living very gud life?? he is the only earner at hm?? so how possible tht he always try to compete wid ma father?? in ma hm we all r earning?? even im student but help mom n dad in their office. doinn work on MYOB n SQL. smtime we r really out of money bcz invest more thn earning. well it goes?? my bro is nt interested in army thts why he is doinn commerce in Sydeny Uni. but smtime i really doubt how can army officer earn black money coz they r nt envolved with flow of money in army?? or m i being stupid?? </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56953 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:45:16 +0000 Beenai 56953@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>@semirza,<br /> U r right .<br /> but the problem is that,the army generals who represent army...<br /> they all have been very bad and very negative role they have played in our politics so far .<br /> so we tend to dislike the institution who is getting the bigger chunk of our national income.<br /> getting always stand by position to the Presidency.<br /> getting all the privileges ,which a common Pakistani ,cant even think of affording .<br /> they spend a luxurious life .<br /> so ppl in general has start disliking Army.<br /> that's true that a soldier level army man is not getting that much of privileges and he is the first one to let his life go in the line of duty .<br /> but we are into generalizing .<br /> and unfortunately ,we cudnt stop ourselves ,being like that . </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56950 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:31:34 +0000 S.E.Mirza 56950@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>@beenai<br /> I have observed that ‘army’ is being excessively discussed negatively, at pkpolitics. Generalization of issues is not a good practice. The corrupt top brass of the army from the past and even now should be the subject, and discussed overtly. Generalization is victimizing the lower ranks who are many, and in spirit true patriots and Pakistanis who are also being painted on the same canvas. Let us not forget that Pakistan army is in need of our support especially during the tuff times they are currently facing. My request: these comments should be taken in a positive sense, although some may not agree because the ‘negativity’ bug has claimed victims from this forum. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56931 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:58:38 +0000 Beenai 56931@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>i have seen many serving and ex army ppl .<br /> they are all very formal,disciplined ,organized ,blunt ,rude ,straightforward ,commanding and somewhat arrogant. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56916 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:13:24 +0000 S.E.Mirza 56916@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>How many of you have served in the army? I am just being curious. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56908 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:25:40 +0000 Adonis 56908@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Which good results our &quot;great&quot; army has ever shown except for conquering the prime minister house again and again?</p> <p>These idiots could not fight one war properly. From 1948 to kargil, it is a tale of humiliation and capitulation with the icing on the cake being the shameless display in Dhaka on 16 December, 1971.</p> <p>The worst thing is that these &quot;braves&quot; could not even defeat &quot;dhoti parsads&quot;, what to say of any worthwhile army. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56905 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:17:41 +0000 raheb 56905@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>It is NON SENSE to throw such ****. They are doing well and no doubt THE Best organized and well disciplened institution of the country. It is NOT the matter of superiority, it is because NO other instituion ever showed a good results and by that are themselves infirior.</p> <p>raheb </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56893 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:33:57 +0000 Adonis 56893@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Gone are the days when &quot;bloody civilians&quot; suffered in silence. Now its payback time for &quot;bloody boots&quot;. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56789 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:24:41 +0000 Pak Truth 56789@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Pakistan Army is a bull fighter and Indian Army is a cow. left for my indian agent's imagination please </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56737 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:07:25 +0000 Beenai 56737@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>from day one...army has been treated as a holy cow in our country .that's why junior or senior ,army ppl thinks that they are some superior specie. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56730 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:21:46 +0000 aristotle 56730@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>training he aisi hoti hay becharey kia karey? kabhi sharefo me utna betna ho ry kuch tameez seekhay </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56712 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:56:08 +0000 Beenai 56712@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>army use to have a great deal of respect in the eyes of ppl.<br /> now it is loosing it very quickly .<br /> due to these kind of things. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56701 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:57:55 +0000 aristotle 56701@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>exhauste army?<br /> ziada exhauste hogay tu rest karne k ley Govt take over kar lay gay , daro us waqt se </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56667 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:09:49 +0000 gbpost 56667@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>There is no surprise that pak army engages in criminal activies. unofortunately pakistna is on a slippery slope. army used to be very professional and comeptitive once upon a time and now it is loosing its steam </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56424 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:16:31 +0000 flounder 56424@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Hahaha exhausted and beated their own people :) </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56412 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:20:27 +0000 skyfacts 56412@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>They are actually having exhuasted due to the situation...... </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/vandalism-by-pak-army-officers-we-are-still-%e2%80%9cbloody%e2%80%9d-civilians#post-56319 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:19:05 +0000 flounder 56319@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>My opinion about a story shared on pkpolitics about missbehave of army officer to the IDPs and administrator of one of the camp!<br /> I would like to hear other side of story as well! </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/chairman-cbr-abdullah-yusuf-senior-most-bureaucrat-dancing-in-front-of-musharaf/page/2#post-13830 Fri, 23 May 2008 13:39:34 +0000 javedsheikh 13830@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Please stay at the track of the thread.<br /> Only one bitter piece cannot drop the status of Mango, for being the King of Fruit. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/chairman-cbr-abdullah-yusuf-senior-most-bureaucrat-dancing-in-front-of-musharaf/page/2#post-13800 Thu, 22 May 2008 11:09:28 +0000 misalligned 13800@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>secular just in one sentence. Your building is baseless, its not on the ground. You are defending one dictator. The worst democracy is better than a very good dictator. case closed. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/chairman-cbr-abdullah-yusuf-senior-most-bureaucrat-dancing-in-front-of-musharaf/page/2#post-13787 Thu, 22 May 2008 00:18:56 +0000 Rafi 13787@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Secular<br /> I quickly scanned your points.<br /> 1. I disagee that development first and then domecracy. America is democratic for 230 years, it wasn\'t too developed in first 100 years.<br /> 2. Once again, media is product and we are consumer. Make a choice and switch chasnnel if you don\'t like Hamid Mir. As far influencing people is concern, in USA Rush Limbaugh, Shaun Hennity also influnce educated masses. Please don\'t think illiterates doesn\'t posses required intelligence. Intelligence and education are two different ball games. </p> http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/chairman-cbr-abdullah-yusuf-senior-most-bureaucrat-dancing-in-front-of-musharaf/page/2#post-13786 Wed, 21 May 2008 23:52:35 +0000 Rafi 13786@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <p>Secular<br /> I wish if I could read your post but it was too long. </p>