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Discuss » Forum: Faith and Religion - Recent Posts http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ PKPolitics Discuss Forum en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:07:05 +0000 SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-306622 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:46:19 +0000 SufiSoul 306622@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ PMLN, koi bacha sakta hy PMLN ko......nahi. <a href="http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/punjab-govt-threatens-dunya-news-for-pic-scoop" rel="nofollow">http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/punjab-govt-threatens-dunya-news-for-pic-scoop</a> <a href="http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/boycott-dunya-tv" rel="nofollow">http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/boycott-dunya-tv</a> SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism/page/2#post-306620 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:41:42 +0000 SufiSoul 306620@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ ہ تو قدیم یونانی دیوتا یعنی زیو سس سے بھی طاقتور ہیں . اپ جو باتیں کر رہے یہ باتیں بہت پہلے جو چکی ہیں ... یعنی یونیوں بھی کچھ اس طرح ہی کہتے ہیں ... زیو سس کے آسمان تھا ، ہوا تھی ، اور بجلی تھی ..پو زڈن کے پاس پانی تھا ///////////for example i can tell you abt a person used to come to ma SHAIKH is having by birth some extra ordinary brain and Pak Atomic energy commission have hired him for the security. some of his brain qualities are It is much easy for him to know about THOUGHTS of any person or group of people abt particular matter. To change THOUGHTS of any person or group of people abt any particular matter. etc etc Some more people of different extra ordinary Brain capabilities are also hired by OUR security establishment. I have read a report about PENTAGON having such extra ordinary people to safe guard and have some help in decision making or Tackle some TARGETS in opponent countries... So people with such POWERS are their but still they are just 5 or 10% of power of Awliya and can never meet AWLIYA in power. AWLIYA are BORN to control everything here to keep this system balanced and going smoothly.... SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism/page/2#post-306601 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:49:11 +0000 SufiSoul 306601@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Yes, the awliya do control the universe and they have powers equal and in most cases greater than prophets... //////////// Astaghfirullah....anyone having such FAITH should re-call his \iman.. I wouldnot blame you for this FAIT but if you think like that revision of IMAAN is needed.... YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE OF POWER OF PROPHETS AND AWLIYA SO YOU WILL FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THIS IN DEPTH AND COMPARE.... mo7arbelmahdi on "::IBRAHIMA::IMAM MAHDI::" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/ibrahimaimam-mahdi#post-306562 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:23:31 +0000 mo7arbelmahdi 306562@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Okay first of all if someone met the mehdi it means that he was a very sincere and pure person. and that person wouldnt need to post: the adventures of the Mehdi on the internet. instead he'd be out helping him or smtn. If that guy gave you false hope Ibrahima then im sorry for you. The only way you can meet Imam Al Zaman is if you ask god be sincere follower perform all your duties etc... and I don't think discussing someones adventures on the internet is considered the duty of a muslim. Don't trust all people only trust in god. If the boy was telling the truth about meeting Imam Al Zaman then i ask of his majesty Allah to give me a dream telling me that he is right. barackosama on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism/page/2#post-306561 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:21:32 +0000 barackosama 306561@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <blockquote> I dont know what you are reffering to but i know Power of Prophets,Awliya is never ever possible even to be think for to equate them..</blockquote> Dunno what planet you have been on but fantasies like the following are cherished by the adherents in millions in Indo-Pak. Yes, the awliya do control the universe and they have powers equal and in most cases greater than prophets. Any right mind would conclude that from the Sufi narratives. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcGtdJ16z0g&feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcGtdJ16z0g&feature=related</a> SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism/page/2#post-306532 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:34:30 +0000 SufiSoul 306532@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ میں زندہ ولیوں کی بات کر رہا ہوں جو ابی دنیا میں ماجود ہیں ، یعنی جننون نے دنیا سے پردہ نہیں فرمایا . کیا اپ کہ رہے کے وہ ولی جو ابھی زندہ ہیں وہ بھی دنیا کے معملات کو کونٹرول کر رہے ہیں //////////////yes i am talking about Living AWLIYA ... SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism/page/2#post-306531 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:31:45 +0000 SufiSoul 306531@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ یہ تو قدیم یونانی دیوتا یعنی زیو سس سے بھی طاقتور ہیں . اپ جو باتیں کر رہے یہ باتیں بہت پہلے جو چکی ہیں ... یعنی یونیوں بھی کچھ اس طرح ہی کہتے ہیں ... زیو سس کے آسمان تھا ، ہوا تھی ، اور بجلی تھی ..پو زڈن کے پاس پانی تھا //////////////////////// I dont know what you are reffering to but i know Power of Prophets,Awliya is never ever possible even to be think for to equate them.. Their would be many, claiming to control someone through technology or some EXERCISES but its just a TRY and WISH to control universe.. Many Prophets were confronted by their so-called strong opponents but were defeated. AWLIYA are also confronted(awliya always passed through such tests confronting humans having some power in any degree) in their Life but they always Punish such ones and get confirms their control... let me tell you that AWLIYA always get feeling of their power, after successful victories against many opponents.Their training never completes without such confrontations and this is a must exercise.. Their are many who wishes to get complete control of this system BUT surrenders as soon as some WALI challenged him. This is again not a bookish knowledge nor theory. the toughest confrontation is between SHAITAN(his forces) and a WALI. Shaitan surrenders and gets AMAN by saying that i am allowed till QAYAMA so donot harm me and my Army.. I mean to say that AWLIYA must FACE strong opponents from time to time during training.Without such confrontations WALI training doesnot completed at All.... oblivion on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306525 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:20:19 +0000 oblivion 306525@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ sufi sahib میں زندہ ولیوں کی بات کر رہا ہوں جو ابی دنیا میں ماجود ہیں ، یعنی جننون نے دنیا سے پردہ نہیں فرمایا . کیا اپ کہ رہے کے وہ ولی جو ابھی زندہ ہیں وہ بھی دنیا کے معملات کو کونٹرول کر رہے ہیں .... ذرا تفصیل سے جواب دیں <blockquote> You cannot imagine how they are acting according to divine orders.I feel many times that if AWLIYA were allowed to act upon their own skills,experiences their would be collapse of this SYSTEM CUZ managing this SYSTEM is never possible by anyone own SKILLS,without DIVINE GUIDANCE SYSTEM...... </blockquote> یہ تو قدیم یونانی دیوتا یعنی زیو سس سے بھی طاقتور ہیں . اپ جو باتیں کر رہے یہ باتیں بہت پہلے جو چکی ہیں ... یعنی یونیوں بھی کچھ اس طرح ہی کہتے ہیں ... زیو سس کے آسمان تھا ، ہوا تھی ، اور بجلی تھی ..پو زڈن کے پاس پانی تھا ... ہیڈ ز کے پاس مردو ن کی بادشاہت تھی . SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306518 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:51:54 +0000 SufiSoul 306518@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ کیا ولیوں کا سلسلہ بند ہو گی /////////////// Dear,Which one of my comments reflects like this???? Secondly AWLIYA are divine Tools in order to keep this SYSTEM balanced and going and many more requirements. Abandoning AWLIYAS would mean collapse of this system. AWLIYA are spread in each and every continent of the EARTH and obey divine orders to manage things,events,according to their SPECIALITIES.. And always keep in your mind the below HADEES MUBARAKA.. Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (sallalahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "Allah, the Exalted said: "Whoever takes a Wali (loyal slave) of Mine as an enemy, I will wage war on him; and My slave will not perform any act with which he draws closer to Me, more beloved to Me then when he fulfills what I have ordained on him; and My salve will keep drawing closer to Me by performing the Nawafil (voluntary acts of worship) until I love him, and when I love him, I will be his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hands with which he strikes, and his legs with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him; and if he seeks refuge with Me, I will grant him refuge." [Saheeh Bukhari] .. You cannot imagine how they are acting according to divine orders.I feel many times that if AWLIYA were allowed to act upon their own skills,experiences their would be collapse of this SYSTEM CUZ managing this SYSTEM is never possible by anyone own SKILLS,without DIVINE GUIDANCE SYSTEM....... oblivion on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306475 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:48:50 +0000 oblivion 306475@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <blockquote> MAARIFAT (Introduction) is like an ocean and untill wali itself mentiones his stage,no one other can get awarness of his stage.I think now its clear... </blockquote> کیا ولیوں کا سلسلہ بند ہو گیا ... میرا مطلب آج کل اپ کی نظر میں کوئی ولی ہے oblivion on "Women Liberation" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/women-liberation-1#post-306471 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:37:45 +0000 oblivion 306471@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <img src="http://media.myspacepimper.com/content/gif/animals/animals_170.gif" /> SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306461 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:14:34 +0000 SufiSoul 306461@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Watch all darren brown videos , will help to learn how Sufis ,saints and prophets influenced people ... ///////////////// But some of them influence this entire universe and many of them influence system(Human and others)on the EARTH... They are blessed with this POWER and no one ever able or will be able to GET such a power. All the techs and modern warfare and strategies have so far failed against this power.No Match At all. Actually guidance system is divine guidance system so their Target never survives.And SPECIAL HUMANS are just CONVERSION TOOLS, into HUMAN LANGUGE,of divine instructions.. WHEN "EVERYTHING" IS UNDER CONTROL OF YOUR "THOUGHT"and your "THOUGHT" is under "COMPLETE DIVINE GUIDANCE AND CONTROL SYSTEM", than you can imagine the "POWER".... So Target can never survive... ???? ???? on "Women Liberation" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/women-liberation-1#post-306398 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:48:46 +0000 ???? ???? 306398@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ جنابِ عالی۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ آپ کون سے والے اسلام کی بات کر رہے ہیں جو عورتوں کو آزادی دیتا ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ کیوں کہ میں تو اس اسلام کو ابھی تک ڈھونڈنے کی کوشش کر رہا ہوں جو عورتوں کی آزادی کا علمبردار ہو۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ ویسے اب تک میں نے تو یہی دیکھا ہے کہ جتنے مُنہ اتنے اسلام۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ ;-) :-) ;-) ویسے اگر آپ میری رہنمائی کرسکیں اور یہ بتاسکیں کہ اسلام کے آنے سے پہلے کیا عرب میں عورتوں کی کیا حالت تھی۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ Iftikhar on "Women Liberation" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/women-liberation-1#post-306395 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:32:54 +0000 Iftikhar 306395@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Women Liberation I find Islam to be liberating not oppressive: women are partners. Islam is the first religion which systematically empowered women when women were considered as totally subservient to man. There was no concept of her being an independent entity and enjoying equal right with dignity. We live in a country where women are over-sexualised and sold as 'products' for capitalist gains. A woman's beauty is splashed around everywhere, and she is only judged by that. Islam tells a woman to cover up so that she is not abused as Western women are. Islam provides the security and respect to women community than other religions. The western countries are using the women as an entertainment channels. All the women in the world should think about themselves then decide what is right and what is wrong for them in other religions (than Islam) What is feminism? Nothing but women’s movement to empower her and to consider her full human being and not mere second sex as ‘Simon de Bouire called her. Thus we see in western countries until early part of twentieth century she did not enjoy an independent status. It was only after thirties of twentieth century that she won equal status legally and various western countries passed the laws to this effect. Yet patriarchy is looming large on her in these countries. Qur’an empowered her and gave equal status. Another important question is what is the difference between Islamic and western feminism or is there any difference at all. If we go by definition of feminism as an ideology of empowerment of women, there is no difference. On the other hand, women had no rights and but won through great deal of struggle and this struggle came to be known as ‘feminism’ i.e. women’s empowerment. But there are significant differences also between Islamic and western feminism. Islamic feminism is based on certain non-negotiable values i.e. equality with honour and dignity. Freedom has certain Islamic responsibility whereas in the west freedom tends to degenerate into licentiousness, though not in law but certainly in social and cultural practices. In western culture sexual freedom has become a matter of women’s right and sex has become matter of enjoyment and lost its sanctity as an instrument of procreation. Qur’an does lay down certain strict norms for sexual behavior. Both man woman have right to sexual gratification (a woman has as much right to sexual gratification as man) but within marital frame-work. There is no concept of freedom for extramarital sex in any form. Sex is permissible only with marital framework. Sex, as far as Islam is concerned, is not mere enjoyment but an act for procreations and hence has sanctity. It is important here to emphasize that in a patriarchal society men decided the norms of sexual behavior. It was theorized that man has greater urge for sex and hence he needs multiple wives and woman tends to be passive and hence has to be content with one. This is not true as far as Qur’an is concerned. Qur’an’s approach is very different. It is not greater or lesser degree of sexual urge which necessitates multiple or monogamous marriage. Whole emphasis is on monogamous marriage (in both the Qur’anic verses i.e. 4:3 and 4:129). Multiple marriages were permitted only to take care of widows and orphans and not for greater sexual urge and the verse 4:129 gives the norm of monogamy and not to leave first wife in suspense or neglected. Thus as far as Qur’an is concerned sexual gratification is a non-negotiable right for both man woman. And hence a divorcee and a widow are also permitted to marry and gratify their sexual urge. Also, in western capitalist countries women’s dignity has been compromised and she has been reduced to a commodity to be exploited. Her semi-naked postures and her sexuality is exploited commercially unabashedly. It is totally against the concept of woman’s honour and dignity. Unfortunately western feminists do not consider this as objectionable but accept it as part of woman’s freedom. Some (though not many) even advocate prostitution as woman’s right to earn her bread. This is against the concept of Islamic feminism as while sanctioning sexual gratification as much right of woman as that of man, it prohibits extra-marital sexual liaison and on one hand upholds dignity and honour of woman and on the other, exalts sex on the level of sanctity and restricts it for procreation.. Thus it would be seen that discourse of Islamic feminism, while having something in common with modern western feminism, it also significantly differs from it. Islamic feminists have to observe certain norms which modern western feminists are not obliged to. There is institutionalised oppression of women in all cultures. In India Hindu female foetocide numbers approximately two million every year. Hinduism is rife with sexism. Women are classed as objects owned by men. The Muslims from the Sub-continent were converted from Hinduism. They carry even now a lot of Hindu traditions of dishonouring women mostly in isolated ruler areas. In urban areas Muslims are well educated both Islamically and worldly and women have all the rights given by Islam. UNICEF photo of the year shows, a bridegroom, 40, with his 11-year-old bride in Afghanistan. The bridegroom is going to take care of her and their future children. UNICEF photo of the year must show that the teenage pregnancies and abortion, drug addiction, binge drinking and anti-social behavior is on the rise in Britain. All of them are burden on British tax-payers. This is sickening. It's no wonder Great Britain is in such a bad shape. Ten years old British girls are haveing babies out of wedlock. They are not allowed to get married but are allowed to have babies. Teenage pregnancy rate in Great Britain is the highest in Western Europe. It is a civilised country and Yemen is a backward country because it allows young girls to get married. The Holy Quran gives more rights to women than the so called western civilisation. Western Secularism cannot teach Muslims how to treat women. Islam teaches us how to be civilised. Islam is a middle path. Women are even abused in the UK Parliament, which is called the Mother of Parliament. It is not just verbal abuse the female MPs have had to deal with. The tradition of killing women for family honour is a “curse”. Violence against women is a global phenomenon. An Australian Judge failed to jail nine males who admitted gang-raping a 10-year old Aboriginal girl, by saying the victim probably agreed to have sex with them. More than half the babies born to British mothers this year will be outside marriage for the first time since records begins. There is a steady decline in marriage among British couples. Nearly all births to Pakistani mothers are within wedlock. The veil signified the rejection of an unacceptable system of values which debased women while Islam elevated women to a position of honour and respect. It is not liberation, where women go naked. It is just oppression, because men want to see them naked. Miniskirts and plunging necklines represent oppression. Veil is a sign of liberation from a prevailing and dangerous western, secular norm – namely, a view of women purely as sexual objects. Western culture is liberalism, and that is in itself a set of norms. But now the time has come that liberalism must change its attitudes because Britain and the whole of West has undergone significant change. It is a fact that a veil cannot be equated with forced marriages, female circumcision or unequal education for girls. The real difference between man and woman is that they have different kinds of bodies designed for very different purposes, and they have also different kinds of mind because these, too, are designed to contribute differently to human needs and purposes. Men tend to be more imaginative and have more flair than women, but women are much more tenacious and better at multilasking than men. Muslim boys and Girls need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Male and female Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslim youths feel torn between two cultures, thanks to the state schools with monolingual non-Muslim teachers. Islam teaches Muslims youths to be virgin but western education system teaches the opposite. It makes their lives very confusing. They suffer from Identity Crises. The solution is that each and every Muslim child should be in state funded Muslim schools because western education makes a man stupid and selfish according to Lord Bertrand Russell. Iftikhar Ahmad Zalaan on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306348 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:26:36 +0000 Zalaan 306348@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Watch all darren brown videos , will help to learn how Sufis ,saints and prophets influenced people <a href="http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Search&resnum=0&oi=spell&search_query=derren+brown&spell=1&sa=X" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Search&resnum=0&oi=spell&search_query=derren+brown&spell=1&sa=X</a> NNL on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-306344 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:53:47 +0000 NNL 306344@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Again you forget that Forbidding evil is part of Enjoining Good. They both go hand in hand you cant do without the other. If you are being told you are doing an act of Kufr or Shirk or Bidah as any Muslim would stop and think and take a recourse and save himself from such a deed and then you tell him a way to correct his deed he will do it. So Telling him that his action falls under shirk kufr and bidah is Forbidding Evil and telling him the way to recourse is Enjoining Good. Its a simple principle. SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306325 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:31:43 +0000 SufiSoul 306325@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ جو لوگ ٹیسٹ میں فیل ہو جاتے ہیں وہ کومانڈو نہیں بن سکتے ////////////// same is here tests are their and ACR is their and further promotion is based over current ACR.Any red line in ACR puts you in disqualification and you are sidelined.This is declared your final destination.(TAQDEER) لیکن اسلام کہتا ہے کہ ہر کوئی تقویٰ حاصل کر سکتا ہے اگر وہ چاہے تو ////////// Their is always a reason behind not getting Taqwa.... پ کہ رہے ہیں کے کوئی بھی ولی کے سٹیج نہیں سمج سکتا جب تک خود اس نہ سمجے /////////////////////// MAARIFAT (Introduction) is like an ocean and untill wali itself mentiones his stage,no one other can get awarness of his stage.I think now its clear... صوفیوں کے زائدہ تر دعوے زبانی ہوتے ہیں ... عمل بہت کم ہوتا ہے ... صوفی اتنی لمبی چھوڑتے ہیں جس کو ایک عام شکس سمج ہی نہیں سکتے ///////////////////////// These people never say anything abt them unless it is extremely neccessary.Even they dont talk to their students unless they want understand something.I think you are refering to some SAJADA NASHEEN.. اپ نے کہا با طن ///////////// let me explain it to you again..what is batin and why is called batin.???? A common man knows from experiences that their is a rule of UP and DOWN(UROOJ O ZAWAL).And may be common man have observed some other divine rules also(This is called BATIN KNOWLEDGE)...Same when a student is passed through different intense divine trainings he gets aware about in depth rules of divine this system is controlled through.So he knows according to his LEVEL how this whole universe is working so he knows and never feel any fear.But this universe is like an ocean and the more anyone knows the more his Level is considered high..... oblivion on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306219 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:24:27 +0000 oblivion 306219@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ sufi soul ایس ایس جی میں ایک کومانڈو کو طبی طور پر تیار کیا جاتا ہے اور یہ کام سب کے سامنے ہوتا ہے . جو لوگ ٹیسٹ میں فیل ہو جاتے ہیں وہ کومانڈو نہیں بن سکتے . جب کے صوفیوں نے پہلے ہی یہ حد لگی ہوئی ہے کے ہر کوئی ولی نہیں بن سکتا ہے ...یعنی الله کی مرضی ہے جیسے ولی بنے ... لیکن اسلام کہتا ہے کہ ہر کوئی تقویٰ حاصل کر سکتا ہے اگر وہ چاہے تو .... اپ کہ رہے ہیں کے کوئی بھی ولی کے سٹیج نہیں سمج سکتا جب تک خود اس نہ سمجے .... یعنی ولی کو سمجنے کے لئے ولی ہونا ضروری ہے ..... اپ کی یہی بات اپ کی پچھلی باتوں کو تضاد کرتی ہے.... کیوں کے اپ خود ولی نہیں ہے پھر اپ ہمیں ولیوں کے بارے میں کیا سمجا رہے ہیں .... بلکے ایک شیخ کے مرید ہیں ، جو اپ کو اپنے ذہن سے کونٹرول کر رہا ہے . صوفی سول ایک عام شکس کو کونٹرول کرنا بہت آسان ہو ہے .. میں نے اپ سے پوچھا کے جو اپ ہمیں بتا رہے اس کی کیا گارنٹی ہے کے وہ جیلی نہیں ہے اپ نے جواب میں یہ کہا --- میں اپ کو زندگی کے نظام سے اگا کرنا چاہتا ہوں جو زبانی نہیں بلکے عملی ہے ... صوفیوں کے زائدہ تر دعوے زبانی ہوتے ہیں ... عمل بہت کم ہوتا ہے ... صوفی اتنی لمبی چھوڑتے ہیں جس کو ایک عام شکس سمج ہی نہیں سکتے ... جس کو سمج نہیں اتی وہ یہی کہتا ہے یہی حق ہے اپ نے کہا با طن .... لیکن اپ نے پھر مرے سوال کا جواب نہیں دیا .... ہماری زندگی کیسے وجود میں ... یعنی حقیقت کیا ہے .... جس کے وجہ سے زمین پہ زندگی نومودار ہوئی ہے SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306146 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:46:28 +0000 SufiSoul 306146@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ ZALAAN, Kis kisam k thread me kia post kerna hy ye TASTE tho hona chahiye atleast..... SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306008 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 13:06:44 +0000 SufiSoul 306008@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <a href="http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2011-daily/10-12-2011/col10.htm" rel="nofollow">http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2011-daily/10-12-2011/col10.htm</a> Hasan nisar says, In halaat me koi wali ul laah hi normal reh sakta hy... WALI UL LLAH are only interested in viewing and application of divine rules which leads the events towards final desired event. They know the desired DIVINE EVENT so why they should feel Disturbed.But they enjoy the Transition phase always as this adds further to their knowledge..Common people unaware, of the final event and about divine Laws will feel very pain.. WA LA KHAUFUN ALAIHIM WA LA HUM YAHZANOON.... SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-306002 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:46:57 +0000 SufiSoul 306002@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ experience comes with knowledge...... aap hi apni adawon pe zara ghor karain. i know it happens in such a topic to discuss.. Another thing is that e.g SSG training is a practical one and if someone is trying to learn and understand it just by reading books he will miss 90% of its real essence.. I mean, those people who were master in sufism, you don't know about them and there stages of waliyat.... No one knows the stage of any Wali unless he describes it itself. MIRAJ shows the prophet Muhammad SAWW closeness to ALAH SWT and KNOWLEDGE blessed to him..As i have told you that knowing this system to any step is considered as any stage of WALI.... How can you assure us that what you're telling us, isn't fake.... I am giving you references from life of SAWW.. Again let me tell you that INTRODUCTION of the SYSTEM is a Practical exercise not theoratical.. Bohut zor lagana pary ga samajhny k liya.cuz you are relying over your theory only...... Right let us disscuss batin. Can you tell me how God created universe... Batin is knowledge of this whole universe as i told.It starts from knowledge about your body and ends at knowledge abt ARSH.The sequence is very important here. You want to know the END first.. Another thing is that this journey from your body to ARSH is a confirmation journey also,for everything described in QURAN and HADEES but procedure is different as compared to science.. Surely you will laugh over findings of science so far only during initial travel destinations of BATIN. One other thing which will leave you laughing, over the fear of Common Muslims, specially due to POWER of BATIL.Cuz you know the working of the system by ALLAH SWT... WA LA KHAUFUN ALAIHUM WA LA HUM YAHZANOON.. oblivion on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305935 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:07:30 +0000 oblivion 305935@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ sufisoul <blockquote> Dear i dont have that much bookish knowledge nor i read about Tassawuf terminologies in books </blockquote> Comrade, then, what are you fighting for. See experience comes with knowledge and you say you don't have that knowledge. I mean, those people who were master in sufism, you don't know about them and there stages of waliyat. You said it's just bookish knowledge. How can you assure us that what you're telling us, isn't fake. Are you wali of Allah???? or on what authority you're telling us that sufism isn't fake... If sufism is so important why did God reveal a verse in quran with words "Sufism".. If i am going to hell because of sufism i would like to ask God this question. <blockquote> 2.Get introduced to the whole universal system created by ALLAH SWT(how its made.How its work.and many more in depth knowledge,according to ones capabilities).....(BATIN) </blockquote> Right let us disscuss batin. Can you tell me how God created universe... Was it a bang? How life emerges from pond of hot water. SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-305931 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 05:42:12 +0000 SufiSoul 305931@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Sesetive people having an eye over the situation cannot neglect the downfall and frequent attacks over PMLN repo.. ALLAH SWT have already issued the order... <a href="http://jang.com.pk/jang/feb2012-daily/07-02-2012/col7.htm" rel="nofollow">http://jang.com.pk/jang/feb2012-daily/07-02-2012/col7.htm</a> SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305930 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 05:38:35 +0000 SufiSoul 305930@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Dear i dont have that much bookish knowledge nor i read about Tassawuf terminologies in books.But my appraoch is to relate practical knowledgewith theoretical one... This is such a practical field and you should explain what you know practically.Discussing theories abt practical field creats missunderstandings always. So far we are discussing the authenticity of SUFISM that is it FAKE or REAL way of Islam.???? Their are many more STAGES OF KNOWING ABOUT creations of ALLAH SWT(MAARIFAT)and hence get more closed to the ALLAH SWT.But everything depends upon your TAQDEER which is your already GOD GIFTED CAPABILITY towards MAARIFAT. So i think we should not discuss so many terminologies but just clear some basic miss conceptions and wrong approaches in the light of QURAN and HADEES and ACTS of SAHABA RA.. TASAWWUF is about TWO Things, 1.Acting over ISLAM............(Zahir) 2.Get introduced to the whole universal system created by ALLAH SWT(how its made.How its work.and many more in depth knowledge,according to ones capabilities).....(BATIN) Their is nothing complicated.But its practical not theoratical field... oblivion on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305923 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:34:09 +0000 oblivion 305923@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ sufi soul kashaf means "unveil" but there is higher stage than of kashaf in sufi terminology, they call it "tajili" tajili means appearance of infallible God to fallible man... one point about tijili that God appears to man materially is lie. Take example of Musa pbuh who once asked to see God and God denied his request ... The hadits of Prophet also tell it is impossible to see Allah. Where as Al Hajjaj. who placed himself above prophet, tell us about his tajili in such way ;- He said <blockquote> "I am He Whom I love; He Whom I love is I; we are two souls co-inhabiting one body. If you see me you see Him and if you see Him you see me." </blockquote> SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305922 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:53:48 +0000 SufiSoul 305922@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Muhammad SAWW had said to his SAHABA RA that I WAS SHOWN SO AND SO... MANY aspects of ISLAM were given names after so many Years it does not mean that these aspects are FAKE. The actual subject matter counts.Here i am referring to the actual subject matter... gv on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-305811 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 11:18:52 +0000 gv 305811@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ @nnl i think there is a slight difference between judging someone based on your subjective perception of them and 'enjoining' them to do good. oblivion on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305804 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 09:04:23 +0000 oblivion 305804@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ sufi soul <blockquote> Muhammad SAWW was shown many super powers down during KHANDAQ and he shared this with Sahaba RA on the spot. This is also best example of Kashaf.. </blockquote> Did Muhammad SAWW say anything about "Kashaf"? SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-305653 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:43:54 +0000 SufiSoul 305653@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <a href="http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/farmers-surround-jati-umra-in-protest-as-pmln-qabza-group-occupies-their-land" rel="nofollow">http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/farmers-surround-jati-umra-in-protest-as-pmln-qabza-group-occupies-their-land</a> SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-305652 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:43:03 +0000 SufiSoul 305652@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <a href="http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/pmln-losing-its-loyal-members?replies=5#post-305650" rel="nofollow">http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/pmln-losing-its-loyal-members?replies=5#post-305650</a> SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305449 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:58:16 +0000 SufiSoul 305449@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Muhammad SAWW was shown many super powers down during KHANDAQ and he shared this with Sahaba RA on the spot. This is also best example of Kashaf.. NNL on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-305344 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 13:15:45 +0000 NNL 305344@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Lol Gv Your lack of understanding of Islam at times amazes me <blockquote> I do not believe that Allah exhorts us to go forth and judge others for it. </blockquote> I guess you missed the ayah in the Quran where it says to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil sipahi on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-305277 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 05:10:56 +0000 sipahi 305277@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ @NNL We the servants of Allah (SWT) do not know whether it is "Test" or "Punishment" . But the way to get out of both is to do "Tauba", that is return to the Path decreed by Allah (SWT). In a sense, "Punishment" is a "Test" for us, whether we realize that we have gotten away from the "Right Path". As an example, a teacher might punish a student with an objective that student will not repeat the offense. Student might learn from the punishment or become a repeat offender. On the same lines, if student is never penalized for offenses, he may not even realize that he needs to correct his ways. SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305195 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:58:06 +0000 SufiSoul 305195@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ When a Loyal slave is given particular responsibility for the rest of his life.In a special ceremony he is given this responsibility in presence of many seniors and juniors and he is required to sign a paper having many articles as laws to be observed during the performance of these duties.One of the common article is that, 1.I will always prefer(in any case) my given duties to my family. Articles/clauses varies according to the responsibilities given.. Than events covering the rest of the Life of loyal slave till death is shown LIKE A FILM to the loyal slave 8 nine 10 or 15 hours long,depends. This FILM is LIVE and a continuous DREAM and in parts to wake up eat and offer prayer and than again Sleep, to watch the remaining FILM OF LIFE including many events and characters.... YE RUTBA E BULAND MILA JIS KO MIL GAYA... All these EVENTS are beyond the control of loyal slave and Automatic from ALLAH SWT.No event can be generated itself... This is not a copy paste nor bookish knowledge pls note... gv on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-305104 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 11:12:29 +0000 gv 305104@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ @NNL It's very simple. I don't dispute the verdicts on Kufr and Shirk but at the same time I believe we are warned not to commit these sins ourselves. I do not believe that Allah exhorts us to go forth and judge others for it. As far as objective truth is concerned you do not agree with my definition of it so therefore it is impossible to proceed with this discussion. Perhaps someone can intermediate for us who sees both points of view. I would suggest BO. SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-305021 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:56:01 +0000 SufiSoul 305021@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Little about kashaf, Kashaf is out of the control of human and no one knows what matter kashaf will expose to me. Secondly it is a still picture just for not more than 2 or 3 seconds.This picture is complete and self explanatory about the matter it is related to. So kashaf is not something long film about any matter... I think some poets have said abt kashaf as something long film but this is not the case...... During Khutba when Hazrat umer RA advised some Sahabi RA who was commander somewhere very far that,"cover the path from mountainside", is a good example of KASHAF.(I could not remeber exactly this event pls help me if someone did remeber this event.).... SufiSoul on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-304986 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 20:56:59 +0000 SufiSoul 304986@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ i am surprised that a thread which required presence of all the Sufis on the forum shows their least absence !! //////////////////////////////////////// 1-Limitless figurative interpretation of the texts and/or the sayings of their masters.... Limitless???? Masters???? Quran and hadees is the source and no other Master. -Classifying the Deen into Thaahir (Sharee’ah) applicable to the common Muslims and Baatin (Hidden) known only to the Masters and mystics............ Deen is not Hidden and the same.ALLAH SWT have so many MUQAMAAT IN THIS SYSTEM and he wants to bless and introduce anyone of this system,having ability.This is Batin/Hidden things no other things are hidden.... Accommodation of any deviation in matters of creed, worship, or morals. The extreme Soofis accommodate all creeds and all sorts of innovations....... NO,if someone is willing to find ALLAH SWT that one is accepted.Its not that Hindu is admitted to STUDENTSHIP.And if someone is having that potential to accept Islam.... The deviated relationship between the Master and the disciple...... Very fair,exact,straight forward and simple relationship between ALLAH SWTand the LOYAL ONE.which common ppl can never... The state of Kashf claimed by Masters in the Soofee orders in which they perceive and witness all of the realities of existence as well as those of the Ghayb (unperceived realities).\////// No human is created so for nor could any human be able to GRASP the data of GHAIB.All the GHAIB data is of unlimited nature. Humans are blessed with tiny chunks according to the wish of ALLAH SWT.Muhammad SAWW was blessed with the more of the GHAIB DATA than all the other humans,according to his role for the rest of the humanity till Qayama but still not with complete data of ghaib... KASHAF, Is a way to know abt any particular matter in detail.Not the way to sorround all the GHAIB DATA... This is not bookish knowledge nor any copy paste but real life experiences..... SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-304967 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:46:33 +0000 SufiSoul 304967@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Actually Bad-Dua is behind PMLN so its not TEST but PUNISHMENT.. ALLAH SWT like to show everyone his decisions but it needs THAT MUCH CALIBER & KNOWLEDGE to PICK special events from this SYSTEM and than analyse the situation.. Common ppl will discuss the result of any event and will not be able to see the (event) behind the seen... SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-304966 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:41:47 +0000 SufiSoul 304966@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ What if its a punishment ? when its punishment recovery is never possible.when its test things will get back to normal after passing through a hard test.. FOR EXAMPLE: Current seen of Pakistani people is a (hard test) and will recover in shape of some honest leader. On the other hand PMLN test will never recover but will lead PMLN to dissolution.Cus strong Bad-Dua is following PMLN and sharifs.And this is punishment.. This Bad-dua is such exact that every step of Nawas Sharif/shahbaz sharif/PMLN leaders will play a role towards PMLN death. PMLN SEDHA KHAILAIN GY THO ULTA HO JAYE GA PMLN ULTA KHAILIAN GY THO WO THO ULTA HI HO GA.. Bad dua actually grips your brain and you are unaware at all that you are no more able to make decisions ,to take benefit of it....... NNL on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-304939 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:35:04 +0000 NNL 304939@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ i am surprised that a thread which required presence of all the Sufis on the forum shows their least absence !! Hmm interesting...... NNL on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-304938 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:34:10 +0000 NNL 304938@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ <blockquote>Bad times are just test from Allah (SWT), question is how you come out of them. </blockquote> How do you know its a test ? What if its a punishment ? Would you or Do you know the difference ? NNL on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-304936 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:31:12 +0000 NNL 304936@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ lol gv <blockquote>Besides I think it best to leave verdicts of shirk and kufr in the domain of the Almighty. I do not presuppose to be aware of the Almighty's thoughts myself.</blockquote> Gv you always do that. You put a claim forward and then when it comes the time to put it to the test you back out citing various reasons but lately you have been telling me the last sentence bit more than usual. So what it is ? Either you are unaware of the verdicts of Allaah Azza wa Jal on Kufr and Shirk or you choose to put blind eye to them? You say that i talk about Allaah Azza wa Jal's Thoughts while i continuously bring evidences from the Quran and Hadiths. Unless you think that Quran and Hadiths are just thoughts then you need to shed more light to it. So what is it ? Is my objective truth too objective for you to handle ? Do answer me. gv on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-304919 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:28:07 +0000 gv 304919@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ @NNL As I said before I think it is best to leave this debate alone as we are arguing at cross-purposes here. Besides I think it best to leave verdicts of shirk and kufr in the domain of the Almighty. I do not presuppose to be aware of the Almighty's thoughts myself. I will leave you with a story concerning truth and relative truth from Mullah Nasruddin courtesy of Idrees Shah. Once upon a time, in a kingdom far away, The King ordered all his subjects to tell only the truth with any lie to be punishable by instant death. One day, Mullah Nasruddin approached the gates of the kingdom to be asked by the Captain of the guard: "Where are you going? Remember you must answer truthfully as in our kingdom any lie will be punishable by a visit to the gallows." Nasruddin replied saying; "I am going to hanged on those gallows." "I don't believe you" (said the guard) "Very well, If I have told a lie then you must hang me." answered Nasruddin. "But that would make it the truth!" exclaimed the guard Exactly said the mullah - "Your truth!" sipahi on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-304853 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 05:26:12 +0000 sipahi 304853@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ @SufiSoul Bad times are just test from Allah (SWT), question is how you come out of them. SufiSoul on "Haroon Rashid Sb thanks.I have found my answer.Thanks." http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/haroon-rashid-sbi-have-found-my-answerthanks#post-304815 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 03:29:08 +0000 SufiSoul 304815@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Bad-Dua at work one after another attack over PMLN repo.first dengue and now fake medicines.... dekhny waly qayamat ki nazar rakhty hain..... NNL on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-304783 Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:14:19 +0000 NNL 304783@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Einstein was correct to point out the fallacy of the argument that Jews are chosen people. NNL on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-304782 Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:57:04 +0000 NNL 304782@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Gv I cant see your point because you are not looking at it from the Prespective of YAum Al Akhira. You do know that it will happen right and it can happen at any moment? <blockquote>If religion was indeed an objective truth than all educated, rational people the world over would agree on one belief system. Just as all educated rational people KNOW the objective truth that the earth is round. </blockquote> There lies the problem most of your educated and rational people who you consider to be rational and educated are either Kuffar or people who have lived with the Kuffar long enuf to be like them or are educated by them. Perhaps you dont know what does a Kaffir mean ? or What does Kufr mean ? Kufr means to cover up something in such a way that the original thing which is being covered seems never to have existed in the First Place. The Objective Truth is that there is a Only ONE ALLAAH Azza Wa Jal none deny it. HOwever in His Worship comes in the Problem. I can further go into details but the point remains that A KAffir denies the Worship of Allaah Azza wa Jal i.e DENIES THE WORSHIP OF THE CREATOR, THE DELEGATOR and THE KING of all kings. If one chooses to accept the Objective Truth that Allaah Azza wa Jal exists but is denying the objective the truth that everyone has to worship Allaah Azza wa Jal cant be considered as rational or educated. So how can be one educated and rational yet deny the most basic and easy concept ? <blockquote> Religious belief by definition is deniable, therefore it is not an objective truth (an objective truth is one that non-deniable).You are failing to see this very simple point. </blockquote> Again its the Kaffir's definition cos if he accepts the fact that Worship of Allaah Azza wa Jal is not a deniable concept then he will force himself to worship Allaah Azza wa Jal which he doesnt want to. Therefore he came up with the idea that ok i deny any religious belief. <blockquote>I don't have any doubts myself. However i am crystal clear that my faith and belief is subjective not objective. I have used my free will to make the choice to believe. Which is more than i can say for many of my co-religionists. </blockquote> Sheer arrogance !! You say you believe yet all your words point towards one simple fact that you acknowledge Islam and dont really believe in it. Your own belief is Subjective i,e it can be denied and the one you believe in is undeniably the ONLY DEITY TO BE WORSHIPED which is an objective truth yet you have a subjective belief about it ? Did it make sense to you when you came up with this. ? Like ok help me out i want to understand. You believe in the Most Core Essential Objective Truth that Allaah Azza wa Jal is THE DEITY To Worship and the WAY we worship HIM is thru the Path or Way that Allaah Azza wa Jal Hiimself SPOKE TO Rasool Allaah Sallaaho Alayhi wa Alaa Alayhi wa Sallaaam and yet you say that you have a subjective belief on this Objective Belief ? Then what you have is that you acknowledge this Objective Truth but YOU DONT BELIEVE IN IT!!! Allaah Azza wa Jal says in the Quran in Surah Hujarat The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, 'We have surrendered (in Islam),' for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His Messenger (SAW), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (14) As for your Free Will lol Man i cant believe that you are saying that. You might want to change those words if not then i will expand on it. <blockquote>You will find that one grows more tolerant of other people and their beliefs when one realises this. However you do not appear to want to open your mind to a more objective plane. </blockquote> Lol Realize what ? Realize a kufr of a person who doesnt know he is committing kufr or realize that they are kuffar and i have to be patient with their kufr ? Neither shall happen. I m not here in this world to tolerate someone's else kufr. I have open mind to Objective Truth. You however wanted to say that i need to open my mind regarding the Subjective. Which is shall not happen as Objective is the goal not Subjective. My mind is open to the Commands of Allaah Azza wa Jal and to the Sunnah of Rasool Allaah Sallaho Alayhi wa Alaa Alayhi wa Sallaam anything else is pure crap. barackosama on "learning from a shoe man" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/learning-from-a-shoe-man#post-304742 Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:08:02 +0000 barackosama 304742@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ This letter from Einstein seems relevant to the posts and the cordial relationship between the posters. The word God is a product of human weakness. In January of 1954, just a year before his death, Albert Einstein wrote the following letter to philosopher Erik Gutkind after reading his book, 'Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt'. Apparently Einstein had only read the book due to repeated recommendation by their mutual friend Luitzen Egbertus Jan Brouwer. The letter was bought at auction in May 2008, for £170,000. Unsurprisingly, one of the unsuccessful bidders was Richard Dawkins. <blockquote> Princeton, 3. 1. 1954 Dear Mr Gutkind, Inspired by Brouwer’s repeated suggestion, I read a great deal in your book, and thank you very much for lending it to me ... With regard to the factual attitude to life and to the human community we have a great deal in common. Your personal ideal with its striving for freedom from ego-oriented desires, for making life beautiful and noble, with an emphasis on the purely human element ... unites us as having an “American Attitude.” Still, without Brouwer’s suggestion I would never have gotten myself to engage intensively with your book because it is written in a language inaccessible to me. The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong ... have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything “chosen” about them. In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision... Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e. in our evaluation of human behavior ... I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things. With friendly thanks and best wishes, Yours, A. Einstein </blockquote> <a href="http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/word-god-is-product-of-human-weakness.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/word-god-is-product-of-human-weakness.html</a> gv on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-304572 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:06:48 +0000 gv 304572@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ @nnl Now that is an informative post. Thanks! barackosama on "Define Sufism?" http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/define-sufism#post-304470 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:00:30 +0000 barackosama 304470@http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/ Founding times and info about founders Mansoor Hallaj and Ibn Arabi and how people of the time treated the new deal.